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corbinhand

Renders Turning Black Once Updated

Question

I'm having render problems in 2017. When I render any viewport for a second time, the entire viewport turns black. As in a complete black rectangle. 

 

I can update the settings in the "background render settings" and it will render perfectly, but only one time. Then I will have to change the settings again, or else the blacked out viewport comes back. 

 

Has anyone else run into this? Any tips for fixing it?

 

Corbin

Edited by corbinhand
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3 hours ago, Andy Broomell said:

 

No idea if this is related, but I've noticed whenever I restart VW after 'the bug' occurs, my Design Layer resets the RW background to none (instead of the black RW Background I usually use). Perhaps the RW background somehow got messed up in the viewport and so the water isn't reflecting it?

 

I don't quite understand this ... what do you mean by in the Design Layer? Doesn't the RW background only 'exist' in a renderworks style settings, ie. applied per viewport?

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35 minutes ago, line-weight said:

 

I don't quite understand this ... what do you mean by in the Design Layer? Doesn't the RW background only 'exist' in a renderworks style settings, ie. applied per viewport?

 

No. You can set the Renderworks Background in the Design Layers using View>Set Renderworks Background. I wonder if this is where the bug conflict is, between the Design Layer Renderworks background and the Renderworks Style background.

 

Kevin

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

No. You can set the Renderworks Background in the Design Layers using View>Set Renderworks Background. I wonder if this is where the bug conflict is, between the Design Layer Renderworks background and the Renderworks Style background.

 

I doubt that's related to my issue of the background being gone upon restart, though perhaps it's applicable to lineweight's issue? Who knows...

 

Even if you had zero RW Styles in a file, you can still have a RW background while working on your Design Layer. The steps I take when I first start modeling in OpenGL is to go to a resource Favorite in the RM that contains my RW Backgrounds, and double click the one I want ("Black Background"), which then gets rid of the default blue and green horizon thing and just gives me a plain black background (since I'm usually doing theatrical / TV studio stuff). I believe this is the same as if you go to View < Set RW Background. This is effectively your 'working' background, which can then be overridden by a RW style. If the RW style doesn't apply a RW background then your 'working' RW background will be used.

 

So I have a RW background in a file before I ever touch Renderworks rendering.

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I've been fiddling around with things, and am aware this may well be a red herring or just co-incidence but changing the quality setting for 'indirect lighting' from low to medium, in the renderworks styles I am using on my viewports, appeared to get rid of the black reflection problem.

 

Since doing that, I've not had any viewports render all-black, either, which was happening consistently before.

 

Strangely, setting that quality setting back to 'low' doesn't seem to have been followed by a return of the problems. I also went into an older version of the file, in which I hadn't yet changed that setting, and no problems in that file either (whereas there were before).

 

This remains the case even after closing/reopening the file and also after quitting/restarting VW.

 

Like I say probably just chance and is unrelated (and the black death will suddenly return at some point tomorrow), but others might want to try the same to see what happens!

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50 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

 

No. You can set the Renderworks Background in the Design Layers using View>Set Renderworks Background. I wonder if this is where the bug conflict is, between the Design Layer Renderworks background and the Renderworks Style background.

 

Kevin

 

 

 

Ah, ok.

 

That's kind of confusing. What happens when you have several layers visible and have their backgrounds set to different things?

 

Anyway, I've checked in my file and the RW background is set to 'none' in all of my design layers.

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On 7/31/2018 at 10:09 PM, line-weight said:

 changing the quality setting for 'indirect lighting' from low to medium, in the renderworks styles I am using on my viewports, appeared to get rid of the black reflection problem.

 

Since doing that, I've not had any viewports render all-black, either, which was happening consistently before.

 

@Andy Broomell , @Kevin McAllister, @Jim Wilson I'm curious to know whether this works for you?

 

My black render problems seem to have gone away now (fingers crossed)

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I'll give it a shot in my next set of renders, checking on my styles it seems I often have this set to High unless I have indirect lighting disabled. Anecdotally I almost always use Indirect Lighting unless I'm demonstrating a specific aspect of rendering.

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5 hours ago, Jim Wilson said:

I'll give it a shot in my next set of renders, checking on my styles it seems I often have this set to High unless I have indirect lighting disabled. Anecdotally I almost always use Indirect Lighting unless I'm demonstrating a specific aspect of rendering.

 

It would be interesting to know if changing it from high to very high resolved things, in that scenario.

 

By the way, 'indirect lighting' settings appear to be the culprit in this issue too:

 

https://forum.vectorworks.net/index.php?/topic/57545-can-renderworks-do-solid-fill-in-section-view/

 

I don't know if there's any connection.

 

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I switch between different Indirect Lighting quality settings relatively frequently. I can't say I've noticed a correlation between this setting and when the black crash happens, but I'll keep it in mind to see if there's any lead there. I want to say I've had the issue in all/any quality setting, but I can't say for certain.

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On 7/31/2018 at 10:09 PM, line-weight said:

I've been fiddling around with things, and am aware this may well be a red herring or just co-incidence but changing the quality setting for 'indirect lighting' from low to medium, in the renderworks styles I am using on my viewports, appeared to get rid of the black reflection problem.

 

Since doing that, I've not had any viewports render all-black, either, which was happening consistently before.

 

Strangely, setting that quality setting back to 'low' doesn't seem to have been followed by a return of the problems. I also went into an older version of the file, in which I hadn't yet changed that setting, and no problems in that file either (whereas there were before).

 

This remains the case even after closing/reopening the file and also after quitting/restarting VW.

 

Like I say probably just chance and is unrelated (and the black death will suddenly return at some point tomorrow), but others might want to try the same to see what happens!

 

Update on this.

 

As the file I'm working on has become more complex, the black renders have returned and have started to become more common. Changing the settings as I describe above doesn't reliably fix it.

 

The latest thing that I feel has had an effect is the introduction of image props. I feel that creating a new image prop triggers problems. And often the only resolution is to completely quit Vectorworks and reopen everything.

 

Becoming very very tedious trying to work like this.

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That's very disappointing to hear.

 

"Vectorworks® Architect 2019 delivers exceptional quality, with industry-specific tools that let you adapt to challenges and design without constraints. With improved performance and added capabilities that make your BIM workflow and everyday design tasks easier to accomplish, Vectorworks Architect 2019 will help you save time and deliver exceptional results."

 

http://www3.vectorworks.net/whatsnewarch2019
 

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14 minutes ago, line-weight said:

That's very disappointing to hear.

 

I should add I am working with build 445255 because I am beta-testing the German version. This may well be fixed in the final build. @Selin has already contacted me about this and she did so shortly after my post so I believe this is a high priority affair. @line-weight give them a break. 2019 feels good. I need to work with both 2018 and 2019 currently but going back to 2018 really feels like going back. The multi-core OpenGL in 2019 is so liberating 🙂

Edited by Stephan Moenninghoff
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Not high enough priority for it to have been fixed in the lifetime of Vectorworks 2017 or 2018 though. No, I don't think they deserve a break. It's very poor that something like this which really affects productivity still persists. If it turns out that it's been fixed in 2019 then great. It shouldn't have taken this long though.

Edited by line-weight

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Ive just made an account to vent my growing frustration that this is still might be an issue in vw2019 version. The 3D visualization aspect of VW is half the program in my eyes and having to restart the program every second render attempt is beyond frustrating. I can remember this happening as far back as VW 2016 but it just seems to be getting worse. With all the updates and revamps that they have made, the fact that this fundamental flaw still remains is just madness. If I had an alternative to turn to I would be gone.

 

I agree Line-weight, if its not fixed why do they deserve a break?

 

Please, please, for the sake of all our sanity, hear our cries and sort this out.

 

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Yes the Final quality rendering is not functional when rendered in the design layer (OpenGL OK). I can get a viewport to render with Final Quality but can't when in the design layers. I have some image props and when it renders, it only shows the image props and everything else is pure black. At least it doesn't take long but immediately gives me the black screen.

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Not sure if this helps, but I had a render crank through and then turn black, all I did was nudge the VP over and it refreshed perfectly fine.  I've been seeing minor issues with screen refresh of objects that the occasional nudge seems to correct.

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12 hours ago, Aristobulous said:

Not sure if this helps, but I had a render crank through and then turn black, all I did was nudge the VP over and it refreshed perfectly fine.  I've been seeing minor issues with screen refresh of objects that the occasional nudge seems to correct.

It does not help me @Aristobulous. When I nudge the black VP, it shows a couple lines on a big white field, nothing else. Yes, a reboot helps, briefly.

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This render issue still persists in 2019, for sure. I just got this render in a fairly new file; the bug looks just like it did in past versions where Image Props still kind of appear:

 

1006487337_ScreenShot2018-10-17at4_41_49PM.thumb.png.21aca1e148d92f0cd262eca7fba3a829.png

 

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On 10/15/2018 at 9:27 PM, Aristobulous said:

Not sure if this helps, but I had a render crank through and then turn black, all I did was nudge the VP over and it refreshed perfectly fine.  I've been seeing minor issues with screen refresh of objects that the occasional nudge seems to correct.

 

I've been seeing this with viewports in 2019 too. They render fine, but display as black until you zoom in out or out, or otherwise refresh the screen. Or if you zoom while the rendering is partway finished, it'll show the updated portion and the rest as black, until you zoom again...

 

This is unrelated to the bug in this thread (I assume) where the viewport actually doesn't render, though it's another minor annoyance.

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On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 6:38 PM, line-weight said:

Has anyone ascertained whether this problem persists in VW2019, yet?

 

Yep, I'm having this problem in viewports too!!

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