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Light appearance and gobo display across 3d surfaces


A+SMITH

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I looked around but wasn't able to find an answer to this. Is VW capable of rendering lights as if they were on? Example, you are rendering a concert from the crowds perspective and many lights are aiming toward the camera. It will generate a beam, but it look like the light is off, and the fixture texture doesn't reflect light coming from nearby lights. Another example would be sunstrips, if I want to use them to blast the audience (camera).

 

4ba00da52070b5cc194ac8d71d044274.jpg

 

Next, how do I get the gobo to project across say a texture of three dimensional pyramids or directly aiming at a V shape where it spreads down both sides of the form? Everytime I try, it either doesn't display the gobo or generates some flat surface.

 

defqon-australia.jpg

 

There are no specific files for this, just things that I have tried to experiment with to get as photo realist photo I can of complex stage structures.

Edited by asmithcreations
updated with photos
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What you describe is possible in Vectorworks up to a point. The glowing lens or colour frame effect can be achieved with a little bit of extra work by adapting existing fixtures. There is a video here. 

You could alter the glow texture to get different results and use lit fog with noise enabled to help things along. When it comes to strip fixtures, then Vectorworks doesn't really handle this that well with regards to rendering the emitted light, but the lens effect in the clip above goes a long way to showing what you want. I believe this is what VW Vision does much better.

 

VW renders gobos well, but not in OpenGL. Use another render setting like Fast or Custom Renderworks. If you want to see the gobo in the beam, then you will need to check Lit fog in the Renderworks background and enable shadows.

 

Your second photo is a bit far fetched as VW doesn't do smoke yet. It would be a seriously good addition to Renderworks if it did. (I believe that other 3d rendering software packages have the ability to do elemental effects like water and smoke) and Vectorworks doesn't yet do fireworks!

 

Hope that gets you started.

Edited by markdd
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Thanks for the video tutorial. It answered my question, too bad it isn't all that real looking, nor is it as easy as you would hope for a multi thousand dollar piece of software. Either way, I'll keep experimenting to see if I can tweak it to my needs.

 

In regards to the second photo, I was using it as an example of gobos being projected across a complex 3d structure. Essentially, they are using it for texture and effect.

 

Perhaps the partial render below will be a better example of it. I quickly extruded and twisted a basic square. I setup three Mac profiles with gobos, including lit fog, shadows, etc. but as you can see, the gobo doesn't display on the shape. Also attached is the file, in case I'm missing something.

partial render.PNG

 

lighting_issue.vwx

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I have to confess in your drawing I can't make the gobos project either. I took your twisted object and your focus points and pasted them into a clean drawing. Added some VW stock vipers and your gobo works fine. I am not sure what has got corrupted in your file but it would seem that something has definitely "gone wrong". Why not send it to tech support to get them to take a good look at it. In the meantime I have uploaded my version.

 

What I did notice about your fixtures is that in wireframe, for some reason the "gate" has loaded itself on to the front of the fixture (where the lens should be) and not at the 3d locus point. In my symbols the gate is where the beam emanates from. I am pretty certain that this is the root of the problem but I don't know why it occurred as the symbol appears to be built correctly.

 

Hope that helps

Test.vwx

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33 minutes ago, markdd said:

What I did notice about your fixtures is that in wireframe, for some reason the "gate" has loaded itself on to the front of the fixture (where the lens should be) and not at the 3d locus point. In my symbols the gate is where the beam emanates from. I am pretty certain that this is the root of the problem but I don't know why it occurred as the symbol appears to be built correctly.

 

Until just recently, I had been using other software to do this so I'm not sure what is or isn't normal at this point. Interestingly enough, it was the fact that all my renderings had the lighting more or less forming away from the light that made me ask the first question. Guess that's not a feature.

 

In that case, perhaps the other problem I keep encountering isn't by design or a secret setting I have yet to find. Is it normal for a small flat square to appear about a foot in front of the light, causing a partial block? I can't reproduce it at the moment, but its as if I had taken a 2"x2" gobo or textured gel and placed it in the beam. Pops up from time to time but no idea why.

 

I've reached out to tech support to see if they might have some suggestions. All of the lights I have been using are directly from the VW subscription library.

 

Thanks for the help.

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It's that small flat square that contains the gobo texture and shutter formation (when you use those). It should be where the gate would actually be and not where the colour frame is which is what I was seeing in your drawing. I have no idea why you have this problem. Are you using 2017 symbols or have they come from an earlier version?

8 minutes ago, A+SMITH said:

Interestingly enough, it was the fact that all my renderings had the lighting more or less forming away from the light that made me ask the first question. Guess that's not a feature.

I don't really know what you mean there....

 

Mark

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Shouldn't be a versioning issue. I purchased the 2017 software a few weeks back and have only created new documents utilizing symbols/fixtures from the resource manager.  A lot of the times the gobo squares will be placed really far out, such as the mimicked image below.

 

Regarding the confusing part, it would render a model of the fixture, but the point of the light would form way out in front of the lamp. Thus, it would appear that the light was off, and just some random light beam was appearing in front of it.

 

 

sadas.PNG

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On 1/2/2017 at 1:32 PM, A+SMITH said:

It was rendering with your file. Technical support reached out and asked me to disable soft shadows and I got it to render. Still has these strange specks, but at least I'm making some progress.

Capture.PNG

 

So, is the important information here that Spotlight fixtures do not render Gobos when "Soft Shadows" is toggled ON? I (and others I'm sure) have been struggling for years with this issue and if it's that simple I'll be so very very sad it's taken this long to receive the info in this manner. A Knowledgebase item would have proved useful. 

 

K, just tested and apparently true.

Screen Shot 2017-01-02 at 2.30.42 PM.png

In this image, the two Gobos visible are fixtures with Soft Shadows toggled off, the two large pools are fixtures with same gobo with Soft Shadows toggled on.

Screen Shot 2017-01-04 at 9.53.55 AM.png

Edited by mjm
Tested thesis, added screenshot for clarity
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
50 minutes ago, mjm said:

So, is the important information here that Spotlight fixtures do not render Gobos when "Soft Shadows" is toggled ON? I (and others I'm sure) have been struggling for years with this issue and if it's that simple I'll be so very very sad it's taken this long to receive the info in this manner. A Knowledgebase item would have proved useful. 

 

K, just tested and apparently true.

 

I dont THINK this is intentional, I will check with the rendering/Spotlight teams and confirm. If it is true, I will see that it gets an article/entry in the help.

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On 1/2/2017 at 2:45 PM, JimW said:

 

I dont THINK this is intentional, I will check with the rendering/Spotlight teams and confirm. If it is true, I will see that it gets an article/entry in the help.

Thank you very much Jim. This has been a question plaguing me for years. And now that I know the answer I have a clearer path to Gobo rendering success.

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  • 3 months later...

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