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RedBassett

Hide Cable Extra Label

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Is there a way to hide the "(XX' Extra)" part of a cable label in Spotlight? I'm drawing cables not-to-scale, and manually setting cable lengths. I'd like to display these specified lengths normally, but without the extra label.

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Hey RB,

 

It is not possible to remove the "'xtra" when showing length. Hopefully that can be addressed in future updates. 

 

Corbin

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I'm bumping this thread up because I just opened the same show file in VW 2018, and I'm disappointed to see that this is still not an option. Is there a process to officially request this as a feature for future updates? I already have little need for the "extra" amount to be shown (my electricians know the space and know how much extra to expect, it simply clutters the plot), and especially since I am drawing out-of-scale with the rest of the plot (because the cable tool doesn't take 3D model shape into account, so a "50ft" run may actually be 50ft horizontal and a 25ft drop at the end that isn't show in my plot) the amounts I get are completely wrong.

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1 hour ago, RedBassett said:

...since I am drawing out-of-scale with the rest of the plot (because the cable tool doesn't take 3D model shape into account, so a "50ft" run may actually be 50ft horizontal and a 25ft drop at the end that isn't show in my plot) the amounts I get are completely wrong.

 

I can't help you with the problem of displaying "extra" or formatting the text, but...

You should be able to type in the value of the vertical runs into the vertical distance parameter of any part so that your amounts are correct.

Screen Shot 2017-11-07 at 1.39.22 PM.png

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1 minute ago, Sam Jones said:

 

I can't help you with the problem of displaying "extra" or formatting the text, but...

You should be able to type in the value of the vertical runs into the vertical distance parameter of any part so that your amounts are correct.

 

Thank you for the recommendation. I do need to play with the parts feature some more, however my primary concern is the inability to hide the labels. The show calls for some complex cable runs that aren't possible to draw to scale in the paperwork, however if I calculate the needed length for these complex parts, this feature may help! I'll take a look into drawing to scale this time around, and see if I can at least make the lengths line up with the real-world runs better so the extra amount is more realistic, if still impossible to hide.

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Play with the check boxes under the "Display On Drawing" divider.  You will not have anywhere near the control you desire, but you will have much more than you seem to realize.

Also, unchecking the "Calculate Parts" button will allow you more freedom in assigning part lengths.

5a02424b2dc35_ScreenShot2017-11-07at3_30_24PM.png.316b4a808fad5fb8d4b670ddd94a33b5.png

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Sam Jones said:

Play with the check boxes under the "Display On Drawing" divider.  You will not have anywhere near the control you desire, but you will have much more than you seem to realize.

Also, unchecking the "Calculate Parts" button will allow you more freedom in assigning part lengths.

I've poked around those display options a bunch already, but unfortunately the extra length label is part of the length display, which I do want. Thanks though!

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I really hope this feature is added in 2019. It is very tedious to not display length and then go and type lengths in text boxes if you are trying to show a stagehand on a plot what length cable to grab for the jump without having the (x' Extra) displayed all over the plot making it unreadable. 

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On 11/7/2017 at 6:52 PM, RedBassett said:

I've poked around those display options a bunch already, but unfortunately the extra length label is part of the length display, which I do want. Thanks though!

 

On 11/13/2020 at 9:59 PM, cessna310 said:

Still not addressed in VW2021. Sigh.

 

I'll add to this chorus... the "extra" display just clutters up the drawing. There might be an instance in which this feature is desirable, but it should not be the default. 

 

With all the other options for turning on and off various display elements, one might conclude that this is not so hard to fix. VWX please listen to us and do so!

 

peace

aj

 

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The word from the people at VW is to try the new cable tools available through preview/new tools in VW2021. It appears now that the labels are completely gone and you need to use data tags instead. I don't have time right now to delve into this in detail yet so I don't know if it's an improvement or just a change in the way to do things.

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The labels are still there in VWX2021, however it seems that the "extra" length only shows up on Multi cables and Data cables. So far my Jumper cables all indicate just their standard length. At least the Power plot will be less cluttered!

 

Right now I'm choosing to deal with the clutter, as the fixtures will be cabled up in a catwalk so the tech will be able to refer to the plot when gathering cables to haul up in to the grid.

 

It would be helpful to be able to indicate a definite break along any cable; I have seen this comment elsewhere regarding this topic. This would be useful for a break at the end of a truss or at a doorway that needs to be closed at night on a corporate show...

 

I have also found that when copying a jumper cable and editing the polyline, the displayed length can become the actual length of the cable rather than the length of the standard part. When creating new cables the standard lengths seem to always be adhered to.

 

One day, it will all make sense. I think that the software engineers should be brought to gigs on a regular basis (COVID notwithstanding) to see how this all fits together, especially when it comes to this kind of tool. I would volunteer comps to any show I'm doing and an offer of a backstage tour! I know we have plenty of theatrical professionals working at VWX informing the developers, however I'd love to show them first hand how their tools are used and I'm sure they would enjoy the experience.

 

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17 hours ago, cessna310 said:

It appears now that the labels are completely gone and you need to use data tags instead.

The new cable object still includes start, mid and end labels, that display the 'Cable run ID'. These are class controlled for visibility and the cable style can save your desired default classes as part of the style settings.

If you need to display more data about the Cable Run then you would use Data tags, for example the length of the cable run or the cable parts needed to create the cable run

The image is of a couple of example data tags, one for a breakout and the other for a cable run (Harting multi core cable)

cable data tags.PNG

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14 hours ago, ajpen said:

The labels are still there in VWX2021, however it seems that the "extra" length only shows up on Multi cables and Data cables

The original cable tools (multi cable, feeder, etc...) have not been changed in 2021, instead a completely new set of cable tools have been developed and added as a preview feature. to access the new tools you will need to add the preview palette to your workspace.

 

14 hours ago, ajpen said:

It would be helpful to be able to indicate a definite break along any cable

This can be done using the new cable tools for any type of cable, using the style settings. You can either use the default start and end markers or create custom markers in the 2D visualization section of the style settings.

Capture.PNG

 

Because each type of cable is saved as a style you can easily create your own style and save them for use in future projects

 

14 hours ago, ajpen said:

I have also found that when copying a jumper cable and editing the polyline, the displayed length can become the actual length of the cable rather than the length of the standard part

The new tools deal with the lengths of standard parts differently from the old tools. The new tools have moved to a parts based system, where the standard length is documented inside a cable part not the cable tools preferences. Using a data tag you can display the designed length of the cable run (which includes spare preferences and any other modifiers) and/or the parts required to create the run (either as part totals or in the order they are used in the cable run).

 

 

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@jcogdell Thank you very much for this insight (and your screenshot looks great!)

 

I will be the first to admit that I missed something, and it happens to be the Preview tools. I honestly thought that they had been added to my workspace correctly, but I'm embarrassed to say that I actually missed them completely, and have been trying to get the old tools to work, thinking that they were the new tools! Reading through your post a couple of times finally made it click.

 

That feeling of ignorance after posting, then realizing the answers were there all the time is probably why I'm a Greenhorn after over 20 years of using VWX because I have stubbornly not been posting. Well, if you don't ask, you don't know.

 

Once I get a chance to wrestle with the new features I will hopefully be back here to answer my own questions for the benefit of others!

 

Thanks again.

peace

aj

 

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6 hours ago, jcogdell said:

This can be done using the new cable tools for any type of cable, using the style settings. You can either use the default start and end markers or create custom markers in the 2D visualization section of the style settings.

Capture.PNG

 

Because each type of cable is saved as a style you can easily create your own style and save them for use in future projects

 

 

You cannot create your own version of a cable break; it must be a 3D Locus, or a sphere.  You have no control over the size of sphere.  Both the locus and the sphere are too small at most plot scales.  Control over the size of the sphere is desperately needed, better yet the option to use a user chosen symbol to use to represent cable breaks.

 

 

6 hours ago, jcogdell said:

The new tools deal with the lengths of standard parts differently from the old tools. The new tools have moved to a parts based system, where the standard length is documented inside a cable part not the cable tools preferences. Using a data tag you can display the designed length of the cable run (which includes spare preferences and any other modifiers) and/or the parts required to create the run (either as part totals or in the order they are used in the cable run).

 

The current report of the cable objects provides an unreadable list of parts, for example:

S19100ft S1910ft S1910ft S1910ft 

 It may be possible for 3rd parties to generate better reports.  It will depend on what access is granted to VS to access cable object data.

 

The preview tools have some interesting and fun 3D implementations, but cable object part control is currently, terrible and must be done using the split tool.  I won't go into the problems here, but when you play with the new preview cables pay attention to how cable parts are computed and how the split tool is used to specify cable breaks.

 

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15 hours ago, Sam Jones said:

The current report of the cable objects provides an unreadable list of parts, for example:

S19100ft S1910ft S1910ft S1910ft 

This issue has been corrected in service pack 2 and there is now a hyphen used in the short name of the cable part to separate the connector from the length

the new format for the cable part short name is connector-length,  so in your example it will now display as

 

S19-100ft S19-10ft S19-10ft S19-10ft

 

The  cable part short name can be changed as desired (either using the manage cable parts dialogue or by editing the default library), for example using "/" as a separator, a different name for the connector, or a completely different format based on your own preferences and local terminology. The only restriction is that data tags will use the short name field to display the parts

 

 

 

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Unfortunately, this is not enough of an improvement.  There is already a parameter that describes the cable type.  If part lengths are going to be reported in a single field, it should read like this:  100ft,10ft,10ft,10ft.  Adding the S19 provides no useful information and limits the ability to export the field in comma delimited format.  It is likely that for export the field will need to be massaged with a character filter, but even admitting that, the "S19-" makes the field terribly hard to read, and provides no useful information.  There is going to have to be another field that has the cable type of "Soca-19" in it.  What does "S19-" mean without another field describing the cable type as "Soca-19".  The field containing part lengths should only have part lengths.  Are you really imagining a cable run being a mix of HAN and Soca cable parts?

 

Edited by Sam Jones

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On 11/18/2020 at 3:39 AM, jcogdell said:

Did you get the breakout info from selecting the fixtures with circuit numbers or are we still having to manually enter that info into the breakout boxes?  Love to have a multi head with breakout end on a plot then Circuit the fixtures to that breakout and that info populate but can's seem to figure that out... any help?

 

 

 

The new cable object still includes start, mid and end labels, that display the 'Cable run ID'. These are class controlled for visibility and the cable style can save your desired

default classes as part of the style settings.

If you need to display more data about the Cable Run then you would use Data tags, for example the length of the cable run or the cable parts needed to create the cable run

The image is of a couple of example data tags, one for a breakout and the other for a cable run (Harting multi core cable)

cable data tags.PNG

 

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Both the old cable tools and the new can connect to breakouts and plug-boxes, and will automatically display the lighting  devices that are on each circuit, as long as the appropriate data has been entered in the lighting device properties.

 

with the old tools you need to use the assign multi-cable circuits command, found in the cables section of the Spotlight menu. Once this is done breakout labels will display the connected lighting device as will a multi-cable worksheet.

 

With the new cable tools,

use the cable tool to draw the connecting cable from the breakout or plug-box to the lighting device, distributor mode and schematic mode are specifically designed for cabling lights to breakouts but single connection mode or daisy chain also work.

Once this is done the breakout knows what is attached to each channel and the using the 'Distributor Objects' record, data tags and worksheets can display info related to the lighting devices attached to each output including channel number, unit number, dimmer, position, universe, and combined universe and address (based on the corresponding field of the attached lighting device).

Currently with the new tools if the lighting device is edited or repatched you will need to use the cable tool again to update the info stored in the breakout (distributor object record). It is planned to improve how this data link works in the future.

 

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can you send me a file showing this as I must be getting old as can't get it to work correctly ..

 

 

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Here's a very simple example file

Iused the cable tool in schematic mode to connect the light to the plugbox


the tag is set to display the channel number of the lighting device on each circuit and the work sheet is displaying some of the other possible fields

 

If you want to change what the tag displays

 

right click and select edit plug in style

in the data tag style dialogue hit the edit Tag layout button at the bottom of the display tab

then select one of the 'circ*' text objects and in the OIP hit the define tag field

This opens the define tag field dialogue.

the current tag field definition pane shows what the selected text is currently linked to

the parameter name drop-down shows all of the available definitions that the text can be linked with

to add a new definition (or change an existing one)

delete the content of the current tag definition pane

select the new parameter from the parameter name dropdown

hit the add to definition button to add the selected parameter to the current tag definition pane

hit ok and exit the edit data tag style dialogue

 

 

 

breakout tag example.vwx

 

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9 hours ago, jcogdell said:

Here's a very simple example file

Iused the cable tool in schematic mode to connect the light to the plugbox


the tag is set to display the channel number of the lighting device on each circuit and the work sheet is displaying some of the other possible fields

 

If you want to change what the tag displays

 

right click and select edit plug in style

in the data tag style dialogue hit the edit Tag layout button at the bottom of the display tab

then select one of the 'circ*' text objects and in the OIP hit the define tag field

This opens the define tag field dialogue.

the current tag field definition pane shows what the selected text is currently linked to

the parameter name drop-down shows all of the available definitions that the text can be linked with

to add a new definition (or change an existing one)

delete the content of the current tag definition pane

select the new parameter from the parameter name dropdown

hit the add to definition button to add the selected parameter to the current tag definition pane

hit ok and exit the edit data tag style dialogue

 

 

 

breakout tag example.vwx

 

Thanks.   I must still be missing something.  if after you have it done, and the LD changes fixture ID's I can't get it to update.... your file change 101 to 601 but can't get anything to refresh showing the changes... worksheet or breakout box....  what am I missing?

 

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