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lights not working (but not all)

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hi,

i'm just rendering an interior project with many light sources (apart from the heliodon): there are some 25 spots and over 40 light bulbs. the spots are working ok, but from the light bulbs only a few are emitting light in the custom renderworks view. 

- the lights are bimobject-imported fixtures with assigned light bulb sources, then turned to a 2d/3d symbol. the light bulb symbols are the same (copied from one instance).

- renderworks' custom settings include all elements (apart from grass and full-screen preview), with quality set to low (setting it to very high for the final image results in a 12-hour job, and i don't want to lose time on this step again).

- the version is still 2016 (i must do the job in the polish version, but we don't have the v2017 in polish yet)

 

does anybody know what could have gone wrong? may it work in the final result (i can run the rendering process only overnight)? should i avoid copying the symbol instance? are there too many lights? i've tried with the intensity of 50 to 100%, still only a few are working correctly (those ones in the background on the screenshot, and a one behind the wall - the glowing is visible).

thanks for any clue.

rob 

20161112_CustomRw_LightsNotWorking.png

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It looks like you are rendering in Open GL? If that is the case, then Open GL will only render 8 light sources. Try using Fast Renderworks and see how that goes.

 

Mark

Edited by markdd

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no, as i've written, it's custom renderworks. the same as the future final one, but everything set to low...

 

but thanks for the hint, i know that there are troubles with more lights in open gl, i didn't know that the number was 8.

Edited by gester

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If that is the case, then maybe the lights that you can see are the ones with an immediate surface to bounce off like the wall at the far end. First of all, try turning down the ambient light to zero, then see how that looks. Then increase the percentage of the lights. Sometimes it can be as much as 400%. It might also be worth turning lights on one at a time to see more clearly what is going on. I have often found that turning the heliodon tool off while doing this really helps pin-point what's going on.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

 

Mark

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thanks again, mark.

the heliodon has been turned off, but the ambient hint i have to check. and yes, you're right, the glowing bulbs are near the walls - it may have affected them.

rob

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Strange.

Maybe these light fixtures cause a geometrical problem, by having VW Lights coplanar or

hidden behind a face ?

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2 minutes ago, gester said:

thanks again, mark.

the heliodon has been turned off, but the ambient hint i have to check. and yes, you're right, the glowing bulbs are near the walls - it may have affected them.

rob

 

I think they do not shine.

You could see them reflected in the Floor otherwise ?

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Just now, gester said:

zoomer, these are the same symbols, completely the same.

 

Yes, but could be that the far lights gets in a region of less accuracy and angle where the renderer

makes a fault and renders these "accidentally".

I think it is worth examining where the light sits in the symbol.

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Just now, zoomer said:

 

I think they do not shine.

You could see them reflected in the Floor otherwise ?

Not if the texture of the bulb is not set to display light such as backlight. It might worth turning on lit fog to see if there is light emanating at all from these fixtures....

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41 minutes ago, zoomer said:

 

I think they do not shine.

You could see them reflected in the Floor otherwise ?

 

the medium rw settings don't show any lights, the rendered highest quality (as said, a 12-hour-job last night) shows all spots' light, but spots themselves are not visible in the suspended ceiling. 

unfortunately i've forgotten to include the design layer with the floor tiles, so nothing reflects down there...

20161112_custom_renderworks_medium.png

20161111_custom_renderworks_highest.png

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42 minutes ago, markdd said:

Not if the texture of the bulb is not set to display light such as backlight. It might worth turning on lit fog to see if there is light emanating at all from these fixtures....

 

hmm, very interesting. in my case the bulbs are grouped with the fixtures into symbols, but i haven't checked if the fixtures were the light sources as well or not.

in the worst case i've doubled the light functionality...

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so there are two cases: the spots in the suspended ceiling, and the light bulbs fixed under the steel beams in the room space.

the spots seem to work ok, and from the light bulbs only a few are glowing at all.

both spots and light bulbs are symbols composed of a light fixture and of a light source (a spot and a bulb).

is this a right procedure at all? 

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Before I watch the file,

self illuminating materials require Global illumination to be turned on to be seen.

I think that is off in your medium render setting.

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i've set the lamp intensity to 300% (ok, in the oip it has been set back to 100, but the results are already showing), and i start to see the lights. the initial ones are more bright, and still not match the other ones, in the ambient occlusion (although it's still grayed out) i've set the percentage to null.

i don't get it, but it start to work somehow, though.

20161112_rw_medium_lamp_intensity_300.png

Edited by gester

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For me it looks ok in the file.

If there is no ceiling slab in your file that may hide the lights ...

 

I don't quite get the light fixture symbols though.

Having a nested Symbol in it and an IES Light + a normal Light Bulb

(compatibility/legacy reasons ?)

 

Hmmh, look quite bright with GI - would need a camera exposure dimming.

Looks ok without GI.

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OK. The "bulb" fittings won't show as glowing points as they are just symbols containing LIGHT objects. There is no 3D geometry present at all. These objects emit the light of a spotlight, in that there is a beam of light, but nothing of that light will show (as in the real world) until it has a texture that reveals the beam. So you need some added 3D texture for it to respond to like the frosted glass around a lightbulb, then you will start to see the "twinkle" that you would expect from a spotlight source.

 

I have adapted your Halogen spot symbol to include a "capsule" with a glass like texture. You should see the source now. Things will also be better when the ceiling is in position.

 

I hope that helps a little.

 

Mark

Spotlight.vwx

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16 minutes ago, markdd said:

OK. The "bulb" fittings won't show as glowing points as they are just symbols containing LIGHT objects. There is no 3D geometry present at all. These objects emit the light of a spotlight, in that there is a beam of light, but nothing of that light will show (as in the real world) until it has a texture that reveals the beam. So you need some added 3D texture for it to respond to like the frosted glass around a lightbulb, then you will start to see the "twinkle" that you would expect from a spotlight source.

 

I have adapted your Halogen spot symbol to include a "capsule" with a glass like texture. You should see the source now. Things will also be better when the ceiling is in position.

 

I hope that helps a little.

 

Mark

Spotlight.vwx

 

thanks a lot, it makes sense.

 

what i but not get is the 3d geometry for a light source. we have light devices that are library objects (we need them for the sake of the take-offs and all cost calculations), we need light sources to them to have light functionality at all, and we still need 3d geometry to let the light shine for rendered presentation purposes.

or am i missing something here? 

 

in my case i understand that i must add some 3d geometry to the symbol, is that right?

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ah yes, i've removed the shed roof above (there's no other ceiling, as it's an old one-storey industrial edifice) just to make the file smaller...

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Yes, that's right. In my opinion you should update your library files to show your particular needs. I understand that you are using manufacturer's IES files for some of your fixtures which is obviously important for your practice.

 

In the new drawing, I have changed the texture slightly so that it glows.

 

Mark

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