MRD Mark Ridgewell

High spec PC to run VW2017?

47 posts in this topic

Yes, currently multi cores will mostly only help in RW rendering.

A higher single core speed (frequency) + fast GPU with enough VRAM + fast SSD

will help for general VW experience and other standard Apps.

 

But that might change in the future.

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14 hours ago, Aspect_Design said:

Re the cores, for more top plan/3d work a higher ghz per core is better than a lower ghz 6-10 core cpu? From what I've looked into the multi cores like the broadwells really only come into their own when rendering?

 

TECHNICALLY that is correct, but these days the difference is so negligible that you would be hard pressed to notice it. You might see the difference in math/geometry calculation speed between a single 1.8 GHz core and a single 4.5 GHz core but once it gets much closer than that it becomes difficult to measure the difference really. For Renderworks renderings it is almost always better to have more cores than higher clock speed.

 

EDIT: The multi monitor performance/instability issue is a filed bug, it seems to be more common on Windows but I have seen slowdowns on Mac as well that are way more severe than would be expected for the increase in GPU load from two monitors. I will add your post to the case.

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Thanks Jim. Does the bug have a particular taste for NVidia or AMD GPU's - or is across the board? After working well on one monitor - about 8-9 hours in it crashed and on restarting VW was really sluggish. A full restart did the trick tho..

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Here's it's current state. The forum keeps rotating the photo landscape, and won't let me post in vertical.

It's amazingly quiet even with both side cases off.

I'm worried now about some of the comments in this thread re: multiple monitors.

I have had AMD cards forever, but opted for the Nvidia 1080 for this build, and now I'm worried about my 3 monitors.

Hopefully there's no issues, but I won't know until I get everything loaded up next week.

 

20170224_123552.jpg.4016448d5c0865b4ac4d06a2b668387e.jpg

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The Ryzen CPU's just announced look promising - relatively fast clock over 8 cores. Based on Jims comment above the difference between the 3.6 ryzen (4ghz turbo) compared to a 6700k should be fairly negligible in the math side of things, but give RW a good nudge along with the extra 4 cores for half the cost of a comparable Intel...

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On 2/19/2017 at 6:43 PM, Aspect_Design said:

Thanks Jim. Does the bug have a particular taste for NVidia or AMD GPU's - or is across the board? After working well on one monitor - about 8-9 hours in it crashed and on restarting VW was really sluggish. A full restart did the trick tho..

 

We get issues with specific drivers from AMD or Nvidia from time to time on Mac and Windows, but the only cards we ever specifically had problems with were the aftermarket ones (I Think GeForce 9600 or 8600?) shoehorned into the 2008 Mac Pros to extend their life, but that was mainly Apple not supporting them natively.

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On 2/15/2017 at 7:13 PM, JimW said:

 

What are the graphics/GPU options on both of those machines, and what kind of work do you normally use Vectorworks for?

 

Hi Jim,

I've decided to go down the PC upgrade route for now.

Work I do is largely Interiors; so rendered models, but as part of day to day work stream (ie. not aiming at 'pro' CGI). Using 3d modelling as much as possible including model web view. Exploring 'vr' possibilities...

 

 I just ordered a 1tb SSD (crucial). UK product link:

http://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/ct1050mx300ssd1

 

2 GPU's I'm looking at:

  1. Geforce GTX 1050 Ti (Asus ROG GTX 1050ti) currently £179.00 in Maplins (UK)
  2. RX 480 ROG strix currently £299.99 in Maplins (UK)

Guessing that option 2 is better. Price wise, rather go with 1 (would Maplins GTX 1070 at £449.99 be worth the extra?!). Existing GPU is Quadro 2000 so aiming for significant upgrade on that!

Went to local Maplins (electronics shop, maybe in US too) as just too many options on the web, but of course range then limited.

 

Kind Regards

Mark

 

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The RX 480 will likely last you the longest before needing another upgrade, both cards would be a good choice however with the 480 being a bit superior.

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Related to an earlier portion of the discussion, I have posted a sampling of benchmarks and a breakdown of what they mean to a user:
 

And more detailed info here:
 

Please let me know if these seem useful or if there is anything else that could be included that would make them more helpful.

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Hugely useful information, thanks.

Noticed that one of the differences between the Gtx gpu's is number/ type of display ports with gtx1060 enabling separate connection of vr headset (I think) whether that willl become useful in vw2018, 19...?

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There are quite a few VR related features in the pipe, but because of the heavy hardware requirements of running it natively, we likely won't require users run a VR environment natively like you need to do for Oculus Rift or HTC Vive gameplay. They may enhance the experience, but we are leaning towards solutions that can be accessed with more commonly available technology in a everything--you-need-is-in-the-box approach so that they can be easily passed over to clients for presentation purposes and not force viewers to use any specific hardware headsets.

I apologize for that incredibly vague answer but I can't get too specific on upcoming features yet.

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Sounds great & makes sense. So far, clients love web view even on basic models viewed on a smart phone!

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Posted (edited)

Why does VW only use one CPU core?  We should be long past that in modern CAD.  I have 8 cores waiting to be used, but VW hangs up frequently using only one.

Edited by BenG
add info, correct mistake
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50 minutes ago, BenG said:

Why does VW only use one CPU core?  We should be long past that in modern CAD.  I have 8 cores waiting to be used, but VW hangs up frequently using only one.


Only parts of Vectorworks still use a single core and eventually that problem will be solved completely. We just can't convert everything all at once, so it will be gradual.

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Posted (edited)

Hey Jim, I'm curious to know why, in general, VW does not necessarily recommend the Intel HD GPU's yet on the Quality Tested Hardware page there are a few devices listed that include said Intel GPUs. Has there been a shift in VW's opinion on these GPUs? Are they better in a PC config than a Mac config?

Edited by Ned Flanders
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3 minutes ago, Ned Flanders said:

Hey Jim, I'm curious to know why, in general, VW does not necessarily recommend the Intel HD GPU's yet on the Quality Tested Hardware page there are a few devices listed that include said Intel GPUs. Has there been a shift in VW's opinion on these GPUs?

 

That page needs to be revamped and upgraded. A simple check or no check isn't a complex enough answer to the question of a given machine's ability and this page only lists hardware which meets the bare minimum specs. Vectorworks 2017 will LAUNCH on the minimal Intel HD GPUs, but the experience leaves much to be desired.

My testing and benchmarks are mainly aimed towards showing users what hardware they should be aiming for, not just what they can scrape by with.

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On 2/15/2017 at 0:09 PM, Aspect_Design said:

I'd be interested too.  I'm in a position where I need to make a decision - at the moment it's between a 12 core dual 3.46 Mac Pro from OWC or look at a 10 core broadwell pc. Does anyone have any experience with either on VW2017/

I upgraded to a 12-Core and hooooooly smokes it's fast (the FirePro D700 helps!). I do photorealistic renders of big shows (like Adobe MAX), and I have yet to spend more than 20 minutes on an intricate FinalRW that includes full event lighting, hundreds of textures, and thousands and thousands of polygons. I would recommend this rig. Cheers.

Screen Shot 2017-07-18 at 1.02.28 PM.png

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42 minutes ago, Sambo said:

I upgraded to a 12-Core and hooooooly smokes it's fast (the FirePro D700 helps!). I do photorealistic renders of big shows (like Adobe MAX), and I have yet to spend more than 20 minutes on an intricate FinalRW that includes full event lighting, hundreds of textures, and thousands and thousands of polygons. I would recommend this rig. Cheers.

Screen Shot 2017-07-18 at 1.02.28 PM.png

I also picked up a 12 core Mac after they reduced the price. I got to say I am more impressed with it than I thought I would be. 

 

Its really the the combination of the total package. CPU's are fast at rendering. Graphics buttery smooth even with complex open gl models. Dead quiet if that matters to you. But the ssd in there is killer fast and makes a huge difference.

 

with the reduced price, It's not a bad value. 

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Thanks guys - the 'reduced price' here in NZ is still 9k for that machine. I ended up building a skylake 4.0 Quad core (for under 4k) and have since upgraded the ram motherboard and CPU to a Z270 and 4.2ghz Kaby Lake. I was having a tone of crashes with the skylake, so I upgraded the MB and ram to 32gb of Corsair 3400mhz retaining the skylake - what a difference that made over the slower GSkill ram the first incarnation had. Even though it doesn't technically need ram that fast, the difference was significant - but having said that there is likely to be some attributable performance to the new MB chipset I'd imagine.

I've just put in a 4.2ghz Kaby Lake and again there is a noticeable step up in performance that you couldn't peg on an extra 200mhz; no doubt there are some architecture changes that have helped.

With Native support for Kaby Lake coming in High Sierra, I'm all set for a new Hackintosh to tide me over until we get some info on the new Mac Pro's...

To me, VW appears to be a heck of a lot smoother on MacOS than windows; My wife's 2009 27" iMac is much nicer to use - the OIP for one doesn't give me seizures when it flashes when a value gets changed (its almost a disco with windoor) in WIndows, but does go downhill pretty quickly one the model gets more complex - totally understandable considering its 512mb Radeon!

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FWIW I just build a PC for VW using the following specification:

 

MB: Asus Prime X399-A

CPU: AMD Ryzen T4 1950x (16 cores@ 3.7ghz)

GPU: Asus Turbo Geoforce GTX 1070 8gb

Storage: WD Blue SSD 1TB

RAM: 32gb 2666 DDR4

Cooling: Noctua NHU14S (fan)

 

So far it has been good with VW2018, rendering speed has been reduced to half or less from my previous machine and making panoramas has became viable (passing from several hours to 30 minutes or less).

Have to add that creating rendering styles has been helpful to reduce those times.

The only glitch I have noticed so far is while generating the first OpenGL render of a session, the screen would turn black for 2-3 seconds before rendering the model, subsequently this glitch does not happen again.

Have tried to overclock the CPU to see how far it can go above 4Ghz but VW2018 would freeze while rendering. Just decided to let it at stock speed. Need to try some VR headset to check how the panorama will fare with this setup.

Final cost of the build (including monitor,dvd, wifi card, case,etc.) 3200usd. 

 

 

 

 

 

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