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Markvl

Best Techniques, Workflow for illustrating small spaces in 3D

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Hey everyone.  I find myself getting into doing more interior shots but finding it difficult in showing smaller spaces like bathrooms.  What might be the best approaches for spaces like this?

I've attached a top/plan view with a camera position and a resulting 3D view.  It would be great to get more of the vanity in the shot.  Is it about widening up the viewing angle of the camera?  Or do I do some kind of studio setup with a wall missing by which I'm looking into the space through the non existing wall.

Looking for thoughts and experience.  Maybe a few thoughts on lighting as well.

 

Thanks,

 

ScreenHunter_165 Oct. 31 09.06.jpg

ScreenHunter_168 Oct. 31 09.14.jpg

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In similar situations I've removed walls to get a better view. Neither wider camera angles or impossible views hold to true photo-realism but careful use will give accurate impressions.

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I'd recommend for this shot to move the camera behind the open door. What is the style you are trying to achieve? scene like this can be very marketing and that requires adding time modeling real bathroom props like towels, toothbrush, flower, soap bars, etc. all make the space look inviting. and don't forget to use camera effects like depth of field and bloom. Also, do not forget to add real IES lights, better than using std light point or spotlights. Model the tiles, pay attention to fillet the edges and extra attention to the plumbing fixtures, make them sing.

 

This first image is a professional render form another super user (not a bathroom) but you can see some of the techniques he uses for selling that magazine shot.

 

Second image was done by talented Tim Connors and I noticed he pays attention to small details.

 

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Screen Shot 2016-11-01 at 10.04.38 AM.png

Edited by Luis M Ruiz

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One of the easiest methods to play around with is the aspect ratio of the camera. Its a good method as you will not get that stretch if you try to widen your fov too far.

 

I often use 16:9 

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For a 'low res' simplified view that gives an overall feel for layout/ configuration of space, have you tried using clip cube to temporarily remove walls - quick and easy, but unfortunately only renders in open gl so materials such as chrome and mirror don't seem to work.

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So it's been rather disappointing over the last 24 hours as I'm getting lowsy results and there has got to be something I'm 

missing/misunderstanding.  Very grainy at 400dpi for the viewport.  In the pic attached I'm using essentially 4 lights; one in a pot lighter over the shower and 3 in the light

over the vanity (instanced by being inside a lightbulb symbol).  I've also attached the light settings and the lighting options used

in the seen.  There are no other light sources in the model nor openings/windows of any kind.  Any help/guidance would be most appreciated. 

 @JimW and  @Luis M Ruiz  you guys seem to be the most knowledgeable on these things.

 

Finished Basement Bath.jpg

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ScreenHunter_175 Nov. 04 11.05.jpg

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I have a few things wrapping up today, I will take a good look at this as soon as I finish them. I'm pretty sure we can tune things up a bit.

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The Shower Light uses Soft Shadows. I assume these are mostly responsible for graininess.

You should increase Soft Shadow Quality in Render Settings until it fits.

Or even renounce of soft shadows, maybe for a test.

 

If there will be still larger splotches, you can increase Indirect Light Quality.

 

Also I mostly use Antialiasing quality "High", could help the overall quality.

(Very High normally not needed)

Curved Geometry Medium may be a bit low, you can see at the Shower's Glass

(WC may be a bad Mesh and not improve though) but for me it is ok, I mostly

use medium only for lower render times.

Edited by zoomer

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A quick time on the chrome fixtures before I take a closer look: Turn the reflectivity down 10% or so, and change the reflection color to a darker grey or black, if the reflectivity is using Metal or a light grey/blue reflective color it can make chrome objects sort of glow and seem unreal when going for realistic indirect light renders, also higher reflectivity values can increase rendering times in some cases.

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A true pure Metal, like Chrome has no Diffuse Color, so Color Black

Chrome has about 60% (not 90-100 % !) Specular Reflexion and like everything Fresnel

(Reflection depending on viewing angle)

So Glass Shader in Reflexion to fake this.

The black color field set to a Gray (60% white 40% black), => 60% Reflection if you look perpendicular to a face.

The white color field leave white; => 100% Reflection at glancing angle (Fresnel Reflection)

 

Maybe blurriness to 1-2 % (but you haven't activated Blurry Reflections in Render Settings so far)

 

In Architecture we mostly deal not with pure Metals,

beside maybe chrome, stainless steel, gold, silver ...

Irons and aluminium are mostly powder coated, painted, rusty, anodized, .... and so behave like dielectrics,

which are 95% of materials we have to deal with and which have only between 0-6%  Reflection if you look

perpendicular to their faces (IOR up to 1,6).

And these have, if not really rough, all fresnel and 100% Reflection at glancing angle.

Even materials that look quite rough and non reflective like a wood or a brick can have quite visible fresnel

reflection at glancing angles.

 

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On 11/4/2016 at 9:11 AM, zoomer said:

A true pure Metal, like Chrome has no Diffuse Color, so Color Black

Chrome has about 60% (not 90-100 % !) Specular Reflexion and like everything Fresnel

(Reflection depending on viewing angle)

So Glass Shader in Reflexion to fake this.

The black color field set to a Gray (60% white 40% black), => 60% Reflection if you look perpendicular to a face.

The white color field leave white; => 100% Reflection at glancing angle (Fresnel Reflection)

 

Maybe blurriness to 1-2 % (but you haven't activated Blurry Reflections in Render Settings so far)

 

In Architecture we mostly deal not with pure Metals,

beside maybe chrome, stainless steel, gold, silver ...

Irons and aluminium are mostly powder coated, painted, rusty, anodized, .... and so behave like dielectrics,

which are 95% of materials we have to deal with and which have only between 0-6%  Reflection if you look

perpendicular to their faces (IOR up to 1,6).

And these have, if not really rough, all fresnel and 100% Reflection at glancing angle.

Even materials that look quite rough and non reflective like a wood or a brick can have quite visible fresnel

reflection at glancing angles.

 

Zoomer; I enjoyed your thesis below on metals reflection and wonder if you could elaborate your points in a more visual way. I for one would be thrilled to 'see' what you're saying.

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Well the odd grainy look to the light seems to be coming from the fixture above the shower, it is a combination of a spot light and an extrude that has a Glow texture applied to it. Disabling the glow and moving the light object down about an inch inside the fixture symbol so that it is not inside the extrude removed the graininess here on my end. Make sure to never stick a light object inside or directly against a solid, it can be really close to it, outside it or behind it (lit-from-behind glass for instance) but inside can cause some weirdness.

 

Also, I disabled Ambient Lighting entirely in your renderworks style, Ambient light is an enemy when going for a photorealistic style since the light comes from nowhere and doesn't allow for proper dark corners like under a toilet or countertop edge. I also turned Curved Geometry from Med to High, which I recommend most of the time, it isn't an incredibly bad impact on render times and looks much better in an area like this with lots of polished smooth surfaces.

 

Still poking it however to get a good lit look, my next recommendations would be to reduce the reflectivity on the toilet as well, it's a bit mirror-y.
 

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@Markvl Let me know if this suits you a bit better (reduced the sheet layer to 100 DPI to speed up testing):

Screen_Shot_2016-11-07_at_10_32.49_AM.png

 

EDIT Woops! Didn't mean to steal your towels:

Screen_Shot_2016-11-07_at_10_37.52_AM.png

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This everyone is why I love this forum.  Thanks @JimWfor having a look at the file and especially for the tips.  Never thought about the pot light being an issue as I've used that in another file without any issues.  Will look at it closer.  Things I think need to be a bit brighter but I can handle that and I'll tone that reflectivety on the toilet.

 

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On 5. November 2016 at 10:27 PM, mjm said:

Zoomer; I enjoyed your thesis below on metals reflection and wonder if you could elaborate your points in a more visual way. I for one would be thrilled to 'see' what you're saying.

 

Sorry, I'm only iOS and a bit 2006 iMac for a few days.

 

That is not my thesis, just physical material qualities.

There are many Siggraph papers, tutorials and essays in the internet that deal with

physical based rendering and its advantages. These techniques are widely used in

tools like V-Ray, Modo, Game Engines and such.

You can find Reflection Values for common Materials :

http://refractiveindex.info

 

With a bit of knowledge about these things it is really interesting to examine existing materials

and objects.

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3 hours ago, zoomer said:

 

Sorry, I'm only iOS and a bit 2006 iMac for a few days.

 

That is not my thesis, just physical material qualities.

There are many Siggraph papers, tutorials and essays in the internet that deal with

physical based rendering and its advantages. These techniques are widely used in

tools like V-Ray, Modo, Game Engines and such.

You can find Reflection Values for common Materials :

http://refractiveindex.info

 

With a bit of knowledge about these things it is really interesting to examine existing materials

and objects.

Zoomer: thanks, the refractive index link will be very useful.

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I sometimes feel like I also need to be a scientist (physicist) to understand the nuances of textures and lighting.

I'm certainly not.  I just like to plug and play and see the results.  Making some colour changes to the polished chrome

texture though made a world of difference.  Thanks @zoomer.

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Yes, it looks a bit dry and scientific.

Looks like I lost my bookmarks about PBR.

 

All in all it is very logic and about accepting some simple rules when creating materials and

the benefit of having a set of predictable Materials that work in ANY scene.

 

Maybe the one or other may also have fought with his Glass Material in the past,

when playing with reflection values at about 40% or Materials that looked fine in one scene

but totally unrealistic when used in an other scene.

RW doesn't support physically based rendering in all aspects but even there the PBR approach

is a great help and simplification for me. Like using Heliodon Daylight System and such.

 

BTW,

the Arroway Materials aren't bad in their material settings !

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Don't forget too that after all that science we want to have a reason to look at the picture of the bathroom.  Little props and such, motivated lighting, all help a render feel more realistic. Here's a bathroom shot I did a while back. 

shay bathroom from bath.png

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Hey. I did some tampering with the file. I hope it looks alright in your monitor. I have three over here and the colors just looks a bit different.

 

The shower light is a IES Custom light. The toilet texture has less reflections and more blur. The wall lights have some advance settings so I was able to fine tuned them. Floor has a bit more reflection and more blur. the scene has some ambient occlusion, see edges. The shower glass has a crazy setting and reflection and a tint of green. Wall mirror is a bit frosted and a tint of grey blue.

 

1518-625_Wetmore_Rd.png

Edited by Luis M Ruiz
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By the way. This is a happy accident. When I added the shower spot light I had it inverted and look what I got. I am glad this happened so we can learn to avoid this mistakes.

Light was directed upwards and too close to a surface, so I was getting a crazy disco ball effect.

 

Screen_Shot_2016-11-11_at_4_24.06_PM.png

Edited by Luis M Ruiz
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Would you be able to send the file back so I could look at and study the settings you used?

 

I see it in my email.  ;)

 

Thanks.

Edited by Markvl

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Liking the brightness that your first image there @Luis M Ruizis showing.  The file you emailed me though doesn't appear to contain your settings, but the original ones I sent you.

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