Symbols creating their own classes

[Eaglerulez]

Whenever I bring in a lighting instrument it also brings in a slew of its own classes.

 

Is there a way to have this not happen in Vectorworks 2017? It's wrecking havoc on my organization.

 

Thanks so much!

[Art V]

Unfortunately there is no way of preventing this to happen. It's an issue for me too at times, especially if the files are used in multiple language versions of VW, then you may end up with what are basically duplicate classes.

 

I've filed a request for an option to override these default classes. You may want to file a similar request for your usage case. Otoh, for consistency and data purposes it may not always be avoidable to use pre-defined classes with some objects. If you only need "dumb" objects then an option to disable the generation of those classes would be nice to have.

[Mike Wright]

I'm also struggling a bit with this.  I guess I will get used to it, an easier option may be to have the option to append the classes so they all fit in the same class group ie. 'USERDEFINED_Lighting_Architectural'

 

Even better would be to re-structure the classing layout in a way similar to the new Resource Manager and have 'drag and drop' organisation

[Art V]

The problem is that these classes are hardcoded to the objects, so you can't even get rid of them. Changes can be done but that requires going into Tools>Plug-ins>Plug-in Manager and then select the built-in plugins tab and then start editing the properties there. But you are still limited to what you can change.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Art V

[Collyns LD]

Just build your own library  I have been using a library that i started in VWX 2012 and have carried over.. works great. Keep things organized. Everyone has their own style and the only real way to keep it clean is to start from scratch with your fix library.

[Eaglerulez]

I just don't understand why I have to have a "Lighting-Moving Light Radius" class  a "Lighting-Architectural" class a "Lighting-Incadescent" class, etc. Is it not possible for Vectorworks to go "Hey this guy wants this light in his "Lighting-LED" class...all these subclass can now be re-mapped to that"

 

I can get the 'hardcode" for using something like Vision, where things need to speak to each other...but maybe have an option to turn it off?

 

Beyond just lighting instruments though, other tools seem to do the same thing and it's confusing and disorganizing for no reason.

 

If I can add...it makes me really question why I'm buying $2500 software if it's just going to be needlessly disorganized. No other piece of CAD or design software that I have used gets like this.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Eaglerulez

[Art V]

On 15/10/2016 at 5:46 AM, Eaglerulez said:

No other piece of CAD or design software that I have used gets like this.

Well.... try using add-ons to AutoCAD and you'll run into similar things, sometimes even worse, some of them are putting things in layers named 1,2,3,4,...298 etc. And if you think this is based on functionality, nope.... I've seen identical valves being put in several layers and sometimes even sequentially numbered names for the block/symbol (valve1, valve2 etc.) so good luck in hunting them down and update them all at once.

 

At least the hard-coded classes in the VW objects have somewhat decent/reasonable names but like you I'd really like to have an option to turn this off and have everything put in my choice of class for that object.

[Mickey]

On 10/13/2016 at 6:52 PM, Eaglerulez said:

Whenever I bring in a lighting instrument it also brings in a slew of its own classes.

 

Is there a way to have this not happen in Vectorworks 2017? It's wrecking havoc on my organization.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Welcome to the ty class structure of Vectorworks. This was something they started with 2016, and it sucks out loud.

Read through this thread.

I don't know which designers they talked to, but none of the ones I work with like this way of classing.

It's down right dumb.

I hate the radius thing in the symbols, I HATE that each time I bring a symbol in it drags along it's baggage of classes.

The way I deal with it, which is an absolute waste of my time that VW doesn't seem to care about wasting, is by deleting all of the garbage classes and assigning the objects to "none"

But wait there's more.

Now all of the lighting symbols have their class as "None" but their insertion class is assigned to none so if you have an active class set for example "Front Light" when you drop the symbol in place it does not take on the active class but instead is assigned to none.

The way to fix this is by right clicking (option click?) on the symbol and Edit Symbol Options / Other Options / Assign to Class - select Active Class.

You have to do this for every symbol.

The other way is after deleting all of your crappy classes and assigning to None is to got to File/Document settings/Spotlight Preferences/Lighting Device and uncheck "Use Active Class for Lighting Device Insertion"

 

So amazingly frustrating.

 

 

 

 

 

[Eaglerulez]

Well the crux of the problem for me is just all the garbage classes that the symbols bring in. A lot of my templates, etc. are ruined by the fact that my intelligent light (which is in the intelligent lights class) brings in 4 other random classes that I have no option to make visible in viewports by defualt. If there was at least a global setting that allowed for new symbol classes to be visible by default that would be awesome.

Edited October 30, 2016 by Eaglerulez

[RickR]

There are MANY other threads and wish list items on this topic. Originally all standard content had everything on None. Then some PIOs started making classes (Doors, Windows, Label Legends etc.) and now there are lots more. Now some standard content has half a dozen or more classes. The pendulum has swung WAY too far the other way.

 

This is a huge issue for me when I trade files with architects or engineers. If I keep all my classes at T-xx and they stick to the construction industry standard A S E M K C L starting letters then we can at least manage the chaos. It is highly unprofessional to send someone a file with classes that are not only confusing to me, but intermingle with their own.

 

I still want/need to take advantage of the online content. I also need, like most of you, to control my own process. @JimWwhat can be done?

[PVA - Admin]

All of these are being forwarded to the respective teams as feedback, for any specifics you think of or come across; keep on posting them. Currently the options clearly don't give users enough control, but there's no simple answer or "right" way that works for everyone.

[zoomer]

I also suffer from preconfigured Classes.

Some people like me don't like the default names of these in general very much as

it most time will not fit own Class Systems appearance. But mainly it is the creation

of unwanted new Classes in general.

 

In Spotlight that may be concentrated mostly with Light Symbols.

In Architecture, beside the import of Symbol Ressources it happens for all parametrical

Plugin Tools.

 

What I still not fully understand,

is it possible to control all this by "Class and Layer mapping" ?

 

Is there any source that contains all of those preconfigured standard or plugin Classes that

I could load in, edit the list to apply the proposed names and save these overwrites.

And apply that to my preset files in a way that it will convert all potentially incoming Classes

to my Class System ?

[zoomer]

Ahm,

or is it File > Document Settings > "Standard Naming" ?

Edited November 1, 2016 by zoomer

[Andy Broomell]

As a designer for theatre and TV, I tend to never use the classes that automatically come in with pre-made objects, such as furniture and lighting fixtures. I get pretty tired of deleting "Furniture-Main" and "Electrical-Lighting" all the time. Further, these classes tend to really confuse novice users such as my students.

 

For some reason I'm more forgiving of the classes automatically created by the Door and Window tools, since I understand for example that "Glazing-Clear" is needed to texture the glass. But ones that come in with Symbols are annoying, personally.

[C. Andrew Dunning]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 2:29 PM, JimW said:

there's no simple answer or "right" way that works for everyone.

 

The problem with what has been done is that it is not offered as an OPTIONAL solution that may or may not work for a given user.  (I'd support such an offering 100%.)  It is IMPOSED on every user who wishes to use any of the stock Symbols and requires what should be unnecessary work-arounds to avoid.

 

[RickR]

On 11/2/2016 at 8:44 PM, C. Andrew Dunning said:

The problem with what has been done is that it is not offered as an OPTIONAL solution that may or may not work for a given user.  (I'd support such an offering 100%.)  It is IMPOSED on every user who wishes to use any of the stock Symbols and requires what should be unnecessary work-arounds to avoid.

Very Good Point!

 

Half a Solution: Two sets of default libraries. One with multiple classes, one with all on None class. Not pretty but easily done.

Other half: check boxes for PIO behavior.

These would remove some functionality but allow the choice between your way and my way.

[RickR]

Well I'd rather you do it than have to do it myself.

[Art V]

On 07/11/2016 at 3:35 PM, Rob Books said:

When I first started here, we had two sets of libraries for Spotlight Lighting fixtures, one Imperial, one Metric.  one of the first things I did was push for the current merger of dealing with that in the records.  it was a nightmare to fix content issues because you needed to remember to do it in both libraries.  with as large as the catalog is now, I will NOT be duplicating libraries.  there exists a checkbox already to ensure that you insert in the active class.  and with VW2017 we set all symbols to insert in the active class.  The classes still come in, as it is on the geometry inside the symbol.  but we tried to fix at least one issue we caused in VW2016.

 

Rob.

Would it be possible to add another check box allowing us to have all geometry classes to be set to the active class, i.e. override the built-in geometry classes? I think that might solve some of the issues we are having.

[Art V]

On 14/11/2016 at 9:06 PM, Rob Books said:

I am not sure that they would do this.  but if it is something that is really wanted, I suggest you put a new thread in the wishlist board and see how it goes.  that is the best way to have wishes added, at least from here.

Will do

[Eaglerulez]

To echo the thoughts of the majority of the people in this thread. I understand the logic behind these symbols bringing in their own classes but there needs to be some flexibility for users to tailor classing structures in a way that makes sense for them.

[Joe Golden ENT]

I know of some PIO's that let you add a prefix to their objects, which is great as it at least lets me get them into the main category I use for that type of resource IE: Audio, Video.  The author of these plug ins has already commented on this thread albeit several months ago.  For some of the classes that show up every-darn-time that I start to bring in items from the VW library, I have added them to my template for my SLVP's and scripts.  Yes it is a PITA but it is easier than pulling my hair out when things disappear between my design layer and my SLVP's.  I wish more of the entertainment PIO's had this option.