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PVA - Jim

Multi-View Interface

Multi View Requirements  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. What would Multi View need to include for it to be useful to you?

    • Select which view each of the view windows displays.
      28
    • Control the Class and/or Layer visibility in each view separately.
      18
    • Drag separate view windows of the same file apart from each other, onto separate monitors if desired.
      23
    • Have separate render modes and/or projections for each view window.
      26
    • Control how many views are displayed.
      27
    • Shortcut to quickly toggle between multi view and single view.
      22
    • Separate Clip Cube for each view window.
      11


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Off Topic: I consider multi view one of the easy features, just copy some other successful application. I am more concerned about loosing control over preference - option - override - defaults - styles - settings. I have documents that contain more wall styles, than styled walls.

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1 minute ago, Thomas Wagensommerer said:

Off Topic: I consider multi view one of the easy features, just copy some other successful application. I am more concerned about loosing control over preference - option - override - defaults - styles - settings. I have documents that contain more wall styles, than styled walls.

 

I can say confidently that multiview would be below, or subservient to, these types features. It would not be permitted to get in the way of them.

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Take a good look at how Cinema 4D has handled this - it works really well.  Some things that are great:

  • Different display modes for each viewport, but a default setting for each as well and when you change one, the software remembers it.
  • Total flexibility in number of windows and sizing/ docking options. - sometimes I need 4 views, but more often I need two views and this is so easy to achieve.
  • Navigation only happens in the viewport that you are currently hovering over with your cursor.
  • Ability to change the camera in each viewport (e.g. change left to right or top to bottom.
  • Easy click options via mouse function or on screen icons to "fullscreen" (within tool palette constraints) any of the viewports and then same to get back to quad (or dual) view.
  • Floating or docked viewports.

I think the key thing is being able to snap in and out of a single view to a quad view - jump into another single view of a different viewport and then jump back quickly, all without thinking about it.  I agree - separate class control per viewport sounds like a nightmare, but I see why others want this.

 

e.

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Here's the part that makes layer and class control complicated for my brain - in order for multi view to be useful for 3d modelling you need to be able to start and end any modelling operation in different viewports. For example if I want to extrude a surface on the front face of a model, I need to be able to activate the Push/Pull tool, select the surface in a front view and then pull it to the required depth in a side view. I should also be able to see what I'm snapping to in all the active viewports and switch between the viewports to choose appropriate snaps for the operation I'm doing. In order to do this, the same geometry needs to be present in each viewport I'm working with.

 

Layer wise I can see some control is needed to differentiate between whether a view is of a sheet layer or a design layer. Obviously operations and snaps wouldn't be continuous between different types of views like these. Same would be true if a view was a Marionette network or a Worksheet.

 

(I'm not adverse to either layer or class control, I just don't want it to be in the way of basic 3d modelling operations.)

 

Kevin

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27 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

Here's the part that makes layer and class control complicated for my brain - in order for multi view to be useful for 3d modelling you need to be able to start and end any modelling operation in different viewports. For example if I want to extrude a surface on the front face of a model, I need to be able to activate the Push/Pull tool, select the surface in a front view and then pull it to the required depth in a side view. I should also be able to see what I'm snapping to in all the active viewports and switch between the viewports to choose appropriate snaps for the operation I'm doing. In order to do this, the same geometry needs to be present in each viewport I'm working with.

This can be done by setting the layers/classes the same in the viewports you want to use.

 

Basically a view with different layer/class visibility settings is often used for reference purposes, e.g. as in my needs to see how an edit impacts the overall model instead of just the object. It is not always used for editing purposes, though it could be if needed e.g. for repositioning an object in the overall model and you could still use the other viewports for editing the object. In other words, if you don't need a view with separate class/layer settings then don't use it and the problem does not exist.

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15 minutes ago, Art V said:

In other words, if you don't need a view with separate class/layer settings then don't use it and the problem does not exist.

 

This means there hast to be an additional "feature" to allow to do so.

 

If nobody develops a way to also set C/L visibilities for all views at the same time
and I want to use the typical 4 View Top/Front/Left/Iso view,
I had to set my visibilities 4 times for each change and would have a problem.

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Apologies for not making that clear, if we DIDN'T have support for separate class and layer visibilities, it would just show all views with the same settings and even if we do add a feature for that, all views using the same visibilities and having their visibilities all linked would be the default behavior. This was a flat assumption here I did not clarify in the original post.

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Normally yes.

 

It may sound squeamish but there are features of total granularity in VW,

e.g. Assign RW Textures to Classes, new Glazing Thickness Setting in Windows or
Wall Component Class overrides, Door/Window Class Setting,

where I miss the "extra" feature of simple setting all at once.

 

So I thought it is worth mentioning.

Edited by zoomer

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To me I only really want to have two windows open of the same file one with the model view and the other with the Target Drawing sheet.

 

Never really understood the splitting the screen in to 4 equal panels, I think I'd probably just turn it off in short order . So if it is multiple panels tied to the same window 2 or 3 additional smaller views along the bottom edge keeping a large view top and centre as a main working view would be very helpful. with a hot key to switch focus between but have the smaller views for keeping an eye on effects.

Edited by Matt Overton

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As I have said in other threads previously, I like the simplicity and intuitiveness of Cinema 4D multi-view layout. You can choose how many windows you require, and the navigation icons at the top of each viewing pane are brilliant for getting around the model.

 

Achieve this, and it would be an amazing first go.

Edited by Diamond

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12 hours ago, Matt Overton said:

To me I only really want to have two windows open of the same file one with the model view and the other with the Target Drawing sheet.

 

Normally the benefit of working (3D) in a 4 Window View is the ability to
work in a Top View part, at the same time snap to a height in a Side View part and examine the result
in a zoomed out shaded ISO View.
Or start by picking a height in a Side View, lock Z, go back to any Top View position, "G" to set a new origin
to draw something in Top Plan View at a given height other than Layer Plane.
 

2D Options I also used where I had one Top View zoomed out for overview, and several Top Views
zoomed to different detail locations to copy things from one to the others.
Kind of having more than one Clip Cube to switch between.

 

But all these benefits mean that an active tool, selection and snapping works simultaneously in all Views

at the same time. Also selective Axis Locks are needed.

 

And it could be mostly 3 Views only.
But our content has some kind of rectangular bounding box anyway so the aspect ratio resulting
from 3 Views over 4 mostly does not help much.
So you may use the redundant 4th View as an additional indicator for overview.

Edited by zoomer

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4 hours ago, Bas Vellekoop said:

Really like it that this is discussed here so openly!  Thanks @JimW!

 

Thank you, same opinion here. Better the majority of the debate and argument happens BEFORE the feature goes public, rather than after. Features always end up the better for it.

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A thing occurred to me today... How should devices that control views similar to the 3DConnexion line behave in multi view?

My knee-jerk thought is to just have a single view locked to the device and leave the others alone, letting the user pick which one was linked to it. Is there a reason it should be handled differently?

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45 minutes ago, JimW said:

A thing occurred to me today... How should devices that control views similar to the 3DConnexion line behave in multi view?

My knee-jerk thought is to just have a single view locked to the device and leave the others alone, letting the user pick which one was linked to it. Is there a reason it should be handled differently?

 

It would work exactly like the mouse and keyboard will work - and only affect the active view.  

So like an OS - you may have many windows open, but your actions only affect the selective active window - the same should be true for multi-view - and all inputs will affect only the active view. As you click from one window to another - the active view will change.

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The way it works in other multi-view BIM / CAD software is that you click inside or hover over the view pane that you want to move around in. Only one view changes while the other views do not, they are static until you click in or hover over one of them.

 

It would be a nightmare if all the views constantly changed at the same time with mouse control.

 

There should be a right-click option to center all views on the selected object, or display extents for all views.

Edited by rDesign
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5 minutes ago, rDesign said:

It would be a nightmare if all the views constantly changed at the same time with mouse control.

 

 

 

 

That would basically defeat the purpose of multi-view.

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Alright yeah as long as the general consensus is the "Active" view (however that ends up being picked, i haven't seen it demoed in person but I would assume it would be the one moused-over or clicked-in as it does in other packages) then I'll add that line to the task. Thank you.

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I have preferred Apps where the "active" view is always the one where the cursor hovers.
Much less tedious than having to click to switch a view explicitly on. (Bricscad)

 

So 3D Mouse in a 3D view will behave as a 6 axis mouse in the perspective or ISO Window in Modo,

and as a 2D scrolling/zooming only device in any orthogonal (non-perspective) view.

(Rotation Lock)

 

Same in C4D except you have to always manually activate the view that reacts to anything.

(Except that scrolling by scroll wheel will work everywhere and this way also make the hovered

and scrolled view to get the active view)

 

In current VW, the ability to rotate a top plan view to make it switch ta 3D view is quite nice

but would be dangerous in a multi view Window.

There you will want to explicitly change those view modes from orthographic to perspective,

wireframe or openGL, manually

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1 hour ago, JimW said:

A thing occurred to me today... How should devices that control views similar to the 3DConnexion line behave in multi view?

My knee-jerk thought is to just have a single view locked to the device and leave the others alone, letting the user pick which one was linked to it. Is there a reason it should be handled differently?

No, only the active (or selected) view should be controlled.  For me the use of multiviews is to see how things change/end up in the other views when updating one of the views.

 

E.g. sometimes I zoom in in one view for editing and have a somewhat more zoomed out view as an overview plus some other views if needed. Especially with crowded drawings I would really dislike it to "zoom"/"spiral" all the way into some location where I don't want to be at all if I do make relatively large rotation in the editing view.

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Hmmh ?

Your Mouse wheel would zoom any view you hover anyway.

Why not let 3D Mouse work the same in all views (dragging or zooming view)

Full 3D 6 axis in any true 3D/ISO/Perspective view.

 

You want to be able to control all views by Mouse but having 3D Mouse locked to

a single Perspective Viewport only, permanently ?

 

 

Or do you mean a general linking of all views to show the same drawing area ?

 

That is implemented as an Option -> for orthogonal Views only and I use it a lot.

Zoom to an object in Top Plan view and Side and Front View will automatically follow.

The Perspective Viewport is always excluded, and as said it is an Option in 3D Apps.

Edited by zoomer

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