Multi-View Interface

[PVA - Admin]

As many of you are aware, we have long planned to bring multiple live views into the Vectorworks interface directly. This would allow users to see multiple different angles of their model at the same time, without the need of complex viewport workarounds. In order to properly direct development of this feature set, I would like to get some feedback from the community.

 

Below is a list of the different aspects that could be possible for multiple views, vote for the ones that pertain to your needs directly, or those you consider to be the most important. If you consider them ALL to be important, feel free to vote for all of them.

 

Below is a visual mockup in a previous version of what this feature would entail, to clarify it's purpose:

[Thomas Wagensommerer]

Quote

 

Control the Class and/or Layer visibility in each view separately.

Separate Clip Cube for each view window.

 

 

I would leave those out on purpose in order keep everything as simple as possible.

[zoomer]

I voted in a way to show needed or minimum requirements.

 

But I am ok with all proposals.
Selective Class/Layer Settings may be nice sometimes but make everything complicated.
(E.g. in Microstation I used global Layer Settings only, but many people thought selective would be mandatory)
Multiple Clip Cubes ? Not necessary for me.
(I had front and back clipping planes for each view but think clip cube can control all of these at once)

 

For VW, I think it should be kept simple.

 

[Andy Broomell]

28 minutes ago, Thomas Wagensommerer said:

 

I would leave those out on purpose in order keep everything as simple as possible.

 

I agree with this. I think separate class/layer visibility would be particularly confusing. The views should hypothetically be looking at the same "thing."

 

A quick way to jump "into" each view would be important to me, such as a short single click on the middle mouse button (such as in C4D). 

[Kevin McAllister]

@JimWI hope these get integrated as separate Tabs. I like the new Tabs on a Mac a lot. Ideally I could do some of the following -

1. have three views of the 3d model plus a worksheet (4 up)
2. a model view and a sheet view (2 up)
3. two views of a model plus a view of a Marionette network (3 up / two small on top, one wide on the bottom)
4. two models plus the Resource Browser (3 up / two small to one side, one tall on the other)

For this to happen we may need separate layer control per view. I can't imagine ever needing separate class control because of the way I work. It would also mean that the Resource Browser and Worksheets would need to be dock-able as tabs. In an ideal world you could dock the Script Editor eventually too.

 

Kevin

[Andy Broomell]

I'm curious how this all would relate to Saved Views. I can envision an implementation in which the multi-views somehow save into Saved Views, and a version where they don't. Not sure which would be better without contemplating it more. I think I'm leaning towards Saved Views saving multi-view set-ups so you could switch between common configurations. This would have to not interfere with current Saved View functionality and flexibility.

[zoomer]

16 minutes ago, Andy Broomell said:

A quick way to jump "into" each view would be important to me, such as a short single click on the middle mouse button (such as in C4D). 

 

This is pan view currently (like pressing Space Bar) in VW
(Don't like MMB in C4D either, I always use the Icon instead  )

 

13 minutes ago, Andy Broomell said:

I'm curious how this all would relate to Saved Views. I can envision an implementation in which the multi-views somehow save into Saved Views, and a version where they don't. Not sure which would be better without contemplating it more. I think I'm leaning towards Saved Views saving multi-view set-ups so you could switch between common configurations. This would have to not interfere with current Saved View functionality and flexibility.

 

In Multi View Apps,
Saved Views are normally settings applied to one single View.
If there will be Presets for how many Views at one time, their locations and such things,
I would prefer an extra Window Configuration Setting.

[PVA - Admin]

1 hour ago, Kevin McAllister said:

@JimWI hope these get integrated as separate Tabs. I like the new Tabs on a Mac a lot.

 

Agreed, that is how I envision it as well. This not only makes it more configurable on a single screen but allows proper utilization of multiple monitors too.

 

For Saved Views I would think that it would be left mostly alone, allowing each window to take on a saved view and all associated settings as you can with the single view now, but not having a saved view be overarching on top of multiview, at least in the first iteration. Saving "Sets" of multiview windows I think would be very useful, and that could simply incorporate saved views into it instead to keep organization under control but not add clicks to existing workflows.

[Art V]

1 hour ago, Andy Broomell said:

1 hour ago, Thomas Wagensommerer said:

 

I would leave those out on purpose in order keep everything as simple as possible.

 

I agree with this. I think separate class/layer visibility would be particularly confusing. The views should hypothetically be looking at the same "thing."

 

 

I guess this is a matter of different work areas needing different things.

In my case I may want to work on just a few objects that are in a crowded model so I disable the classes/layers I don't need to edit those objects, yet I may also want to see how my edits affect the overall model around those objects so I would then also need a view where the classes/layers that are disabled in the first view are shown in the second view.

 

So for me the ability to control the visibility of classes/layers per viewport would be quite useful.

[Art V]

1 hour ago, Kevin McAllister said:

@JimWI hope these get integrated as separate Tabs. I like the new Tabs on a Mac a lot. Ideally I could do some of the following -

1. have three views of the 3d model plus a worksheet (4 up)
2. a model view and a sheet view (2 up)
3. two views of a model plus a view of a Marionette network (3 up / two small on top, one wide on the bottom)
4. two models plus the Resource Browser (3 up / two small to one side, one tall on the other)

For this to happen we may need separate layer control per view. I can't imagine ever needing separate class control because of the way I work. It would also mean that the Resource Browser and Worksheets would need to be dock-able as tabs. In an ideal world you could dock the Script Editor eventually too.

 

Kevin

I agree with most of what Kevin said, as it can be useful to see other things in a view than just the 3D model, e.g. worksheets.

The one thing I disagree with is not needing class visibility per view, as mentioned in my reply above I do have situations where this can be quite useful but that depends on what someone is using Vectorworks for.

 

The views should be separate windows that can be dragged to another monitor, not just an x number of "viewports" in the same document window as in e.g. AutoCAD.

 

It would be even better if it could be possible to have multiple views of multiple documents open so that e.g. I can put similar views of two different drawings next to each other while working in another view of one of the documents for comparison. But this would just be icing on the cake and considered a nice bonus, not a high priority necessity as I can see not a lot of people may need this so I'd rather have the programming resources spent on getting all of the above suggestions in the list at the top done.

[zoomer]

2 minutes ago, Art V said:

So for me the ability to control the visibility of classes/layers per viewport would be quite useful.

 

There are many cases where it IS useful.
Even for people working 2D only. They may use different Top Plan Views with different Layer and Class settings
to print from View Windows and such things.

But it makes things complicated nevertheless. Same with different Clip Cubes.

I think the trend goes to VW users want to have that.
So if that will be implemented in a way that users liking simplicity can disable it, no problem. 

[Art V]

Just now, zoomer said:

So if that will be implemented in a way that users liking simplicity can disable it, no problem. 

Yes, totally agree with this. There should be an option to have an e.g. "sync classes and layers across view(port)s"  to "disable" separate class/layer visibilities for each viewport.

 

When activated it should take the classes/layers visibility settings from the active view tab/window and sync the other ones to be in line with that one.

[PVA - Admin]

I would say it's really a matter of "Do we include class/layer visibility in the first iteration... or the second?" at latest. I see it as an inevitable feature of multi view for a number of reasons.

[Thomas Wagensommerer]

8 minutes ago, Art V said:

So for me the ability to control the visibility of classes/layers per viewport would be quite useful.

 

I agree, it is useful. None the less I hate to switch on and off classes. Four views would mean 4 times the workload for the class jockey. Already you would have to zoom and pan 4 times, set render mode and view 4 times, etc,

[Tom Klaber]

Just now, JimW said:

I would say it's really a matter of "Do we include class/layer visibility in the first iteration... or the second?" at latest. I see it as an inevitable feature of multi view for a number of reasons.

Not first if it holds up other features.  Really I see the beauty of a multiview is that you are looking at the same stuff in different views - the desire to look at different things in different views at the same time is less urgent.

[rDesign]

1 hour ago, Andy Broomell said:

 

I agree with this. I think separate class/layer visibility would be particularly confusing. The views should hypothetically be looking at the same "thing."

 

A quick way to jump "into" each view would be important to me, such as a short single click on the middle mouse button (such as in C4D). 

I disagree with the above ^^^^. I agree with @Art Vcomments on separate class / layer visibility.

 

Until a Top / Plan view correctly reflects a Layer Cutting plane, there will be times where you need to see everything in a 3D view window, whereas in a Top / Plan view you only want to see the floor plan elements but not the ceiling elements.

Edited September 26, 2016 by rDesign

[zoomer]

4 minutes ago, Thomas Wagensommerer said:

 

I agree, it is useful. None the less I hate to switch on and off classes. Four views would mean 4 times the workload for the class jockey. Already you would have to zoom and pan 4 times, set render mode and view 4 times, etc,

Of course it needs checkboxes - which views you will set visibilities at the same time.
At least I was use to have it that way.
(And as said, all activated all time, until the set global switch came)

[Art V]

8 minutes ago, Thomas Wagensommerer said:

 

I agree, it is useful. None the less I hate to switch on and off classes. Four views would mean 4 times the workload for the class jockey. Already you would have to zoom and pan 4 times, set render mode and view 4 times, etc,

Most of the time you would have just one view having different class layer settings, perhaps two for more complex situations. The rest would have the same class/layer visibility settings.

 

Perhaps this could be solved by having a palette, dropdown menu in each viewport or something where you can link views together so that any class/layer visibility changes in one view will also apply to the linked views, that way you would only need to update one view and the rest would sync.

[Tom Klaber]

I think you would have to rely on saved views and the visibility tool.  If I had to have 4 navigation pallets - OR even have a navigation pallet that is live showing the classes of the view you have 'active' - it is going to drive me nuts

[zoomer]

You need only one Navigation Palette for Classes and Layers.
Just new checkboxes to activate which of the 8 possible View Windows will be set at that moment.

E.g. set visibility of Layer HVAC on for view 2+7, next deactivate Heliodon Class for view 3-6 + 8.

[PVA - Admin]

This feature is one of those "oddballs" that will be used by a huge percentage of users, for completely separate reasons and in completely separate ways. I'm glad I can discuss things like this more publicly now, it lets the users see each other's completely different needs and motivations and gives some insight as to why features we introduce seem strangely implemented to some and well handled to others.

 

For the 3D modelers or those who primarily do a single model with very little in the way of take-offs from the original model, the implementation seems straightforward, "Give me control over the render mode and view angle and perspective of each window and get out of my way" but for those working with mixed environments, being able to see sheet layers at scale, have sets of saved views, different layer and class visibilities per view etc become key features. This was another major reason I wanted public feedback on the subject and split the concepts in the poll as I did, to confirm public opinion against internal engineering concerns and plans.

[Thomas Wagensommerer]

Looks cool, but not exactly the most relaxing work environment.

 

So please dont forget the autopilot.

 

In my humble opinion, the next few updates have the ability to make or break vectorworks. Bright new future or nightmare of complexity? Difficult decisions to make. Especially regarding the materials system.

Dont forget, that here on the forum we are not the average users. We already are the technophiles, power users, geeks... in comparison to the regular user.

[PVA - Admin]

Just now, Thomas Wagensommerer said:

Looks cool, but not exactly the most relaxing work environment.

 

So please dont forget the autopilot.

 

 

 

Oh exactly, multi view needs to be completely disable-able. This is already planned and agreed on, not just because of the impact on the user experience, but also because of the hardware requirements for multiview being greater than they would be for single view, since the strain on the GPU increases directly in relation to how many views you want.

[zoomer]

2 minutes ago, JimW said:

This feature is one of those "oddballs" that will be used by a huge percentage of users, for completely separate reasons

 

i totally agree. 
You could see by the very first posts that this feature will be unavoidable 
 

No problem if there will be an option to just set all views visibilities at one time.

[Kevin McAllister]

39 minutes ago, Art V said:

It would be even better if it could be possible to have multiple views of multiple documents open so that e.g. I can put similar views of two different drawings next to each other while working in another view of one of the documents for comparison. But this would just be icing on the cake and considered a nice bonus, not a high priority necessity as I can see not a lot of people may need this so I'd rather have the programming resources spent on getting all of the above suggestions in the list at the top done.

 

If everything was tabs I would hope this would be inherently possible. I think lots of people would use this.

 

KM