C4D Textures Broken

[Tom Klaber 620]

So I downloaded a copy of C4D - imported some textures from the lib I just purchased - then saved as c4d.  The import did not work.  All the textures are there - but mostly just black.  Something is wrong.

[Tom Klaber 620]

Any word on this?

 

[zoomer 795]

C4D uses reflection Shaders like GGX, Beckmann or Ward,

these aren't supported in VW - and so (materials) come in black.

 

You can try to overwrite Reflection Channel to something like VW Glass, for the use in VW.

I think that should by default like this. Your C4D Material will look quite different nevertheless.

[Tom Klaber 620]

14 hours ago, zoomer said:

C4D uses reflection Shaders like GGX, Beckmann or Ward,

these aren't supported in VW - and so (materials) come in black.

 

You can try to overwrite Reflection Channel to something like VW Glass, for the use in VW.

I think that should by default like this. Your C4D Material will look quite different nevertheless.

 

I thought the whole point of the new C4D Material import was to allow for these new shaders...

[zoomer 795]

That is what I thought too when I praised that function at its release time.

Obviously it works a bit more Vectorworks.

 

But I need some testing now if I could always load my C4D Materials at one point

back to VW for further exchange.

Have to see if really nothing get overwritten so I could use my V-Ray Material Setup.

For VW that would mean in any case to "overwrite" all incompatible channels.

 

Maybe even put these as "standard" materials in a STA file.

In this case I could start with PBR materials from the beginning and at least use these

in VW in the common legacy mode.

 

 

[zoomer 795]

Hmmh, it seems to work some how - back and forth.

Looks like only replacing Reflectance Channel is needed for true C4D Materials with e.g. GGX.

Had no Image Textures or VRAY Mats though.

 

But,

a) it does not keep Texture Size when reimported and

b) there is needed a way to replace/overwrite the current Textures like done with other imported sources.

[zoomer 795]

BTW

 

No VRAY Materials will import.

[zoomer 795]

"Nothing will be overwritten ...."

 

That isn't the case either.

If you reexport your imported C4D Materials from VW to C4D again,

where you have changed your reflection channel from "imported" to a working legacy mode of VW,

In C4D you will get in your VW legacy Reflection imported unwanted as an additional reflection channel.

 

So in VW reality, yes, your C4D materials settings wont get lost after exchange.

Just your materials get corrupted by unwanted additional information.

 

[Tom Klaber 620]

Thanks, Zoomer.... 
Though I feel like I am a first-year Mandarin student living in Beijing. 

 

So - I purchased a 3rd party C4D texture pack.  None of these textures import into VW correctly.  You think it is because of the reflectance channel.  If I change this from "Imported" to a VW setting - I should get my textures to work?

 

Again - since VW uses the C4D engine - I am confused why this would be the case.  While VW does not have full settings controls like C4D - I thought that the "Imported" setting still meant it could read and use the shaders as designed.  

When I have a moment next week I am going to test again - but this is Frustrating.

[zoomer 795]

Yes.

 

The C4D Render Engines licensed to third parties does not support all current features of true C4D.

As Dave said it will allow only one of the advanced Reflelectance Channel.

(Archicad has chosen "Beckmann" ?)

VW does not support any of these, beside the "legacy Reflection".

 

Instead of changing these (Beckmann, GGX, Ward) to a legacy reflection while import or that there

would be no Reflection, the whole Material currently renders black.

If you correct that manually you should get a working "RW Texture" with basic values and Image Textures.

 

But it is not that you could profit in RW by some advanced C4D Materials for Rendering.

It is what is inside RW Material System. So you could create those Materials in RW yourself.

It is just that you have more choice of predefined Material Libraries and applied image textures by C4D

than you would get for VW itself.

 

(Have to point out that the delivered "RW Textures" from Arroway in Resources work already quite well)

Edited November 15, 2016 by zoomer

[Tom Klaber 620]

OK - I tried changing the transparency and reflectivity to built-in ones from VW but this still did not work - the textures are still just Black.  I think the problem is more fundamental.  

@JimW - any word on this a fix for this feature?

[PVA - Jim 2,356]

No timeline yet, apologies. I have made sure the rendering team is aware of this issue.

[Tom Klaber 620]

Thanks.

[zoomer 795]

4 hours ago, Tom Klaber said:

OK - I tried changing the transparency and reflectivity to built-in ones from VW but this still did not work - the textures are still just Black.  I think the problem is more fundamental.  

@JimW - any word on this a fix for this feature?

 

OK,

so the other thing I could imagine would be that unsupported Texture Channels where used.

Things like creating Texture for diffuse channel that consist of more than one image texture

that get mixed together. Like a Layer Shader.

I din't try to import that kind of complex materials so far.

 

Do you have a C4D to examine the Materials ?

Or make an empty VW file with simple geometry that has some of the problematic materials assigned to share ?

[Tom Klaber 620]

@JimWWas this problem fixed in 2018?  I have an expensive texture pack collecting dust that I would love to deploy.

 

 

[PVA - Jim 2,356]

Just now, Tom Klaber said:

@JimWWas this problem fixed in 2018?  I have an expensive texture pack collecting dust that I would love to deploy.

 

 

Actually, I had a mental note to ask you how it behaved now! From what I understand, if the black textures were appearing that way because of 2017s lack of Reflectance support, they should now work properly when imported into 2018.

There are OTHER reasons the textures may appear solid black however, but engineers seem pretty confident most of the solid black texture issues people saw in 2017 would be corrected in 2018.

[Tom Klaber 620]

Cool - I will try to find a second to run a test!

 

[zoomer 795]

Well, I think most black materials were not an issue about reflections as we thought but just

a problem of "missing" texture images.

Anyway, checking to have a "tex" folder with all needed images reduced the blackness significantly.

 

As for the reflections I have still no answer which advanced reflection shaders from C4D are supported

and if not, what exactly will happen (black or reverting to a supported shader ?)

Currently I tried to revert everything to Beckman reflections in C4D.

 

Beside Reflections,

I do have 1 quite standard Material that come in black into VW,

although the images are available, no reflection at all and they do not differ from similar Materials

that come in fine.

(Requires to manually overwrite the color slot with the texture image.

Not sure about the Bump needing the same)

 

And the OpenGL appearance of a standard clear Glass, that may even have once been a VW Glass,

looks terrible. Like an opaque surface, with the (transparent) Materials Preview Thumbnail of RM

Mapped to it in color slot - and tiling over the surface in Z direction.

(Overwriting Reflection did not help. Maybe it's its Transparency Setting ? Or using a Refraction IOR

with the Extrudes flipped Faces in Windows. Don't know so far)

Same Appearance for my Sheet Metal with small stenciled cut holes, when viewing from zoomed out

so that the wholes are to small to display. (So same fake-transparent, opaque tiling gradient look)

So not sure if Material broken or just an VW 2018 OpenGL hickup.

 

And I have a Grass with a larger 12 m tiling scale,

that gets displayed with a strange black triangle at its lower right corner in RM Material Preview,

and so it appears also that way in open GL. (Grass Image tiling with a black triangle)

Although it renders fine in RW.

Edited September 28, 2017 by zoomer

[zoomer 795]

A C4D Test File with those Materials for a VW 2018 Test Import.

 

Sorry, no VW Geometry Test Geometry provided but I think it may be everything to map on to.

TEST.zip

Edited September 28, 2017 by zoomer