VW 2017 Renderworks Improvements are brilliant

[rDesign]

14 minutes ago, JimW said:

I will say this though, a LOT of the talk I hear internally is that we will be pushing more and more on upgrading the path from VW > C4D and having that be the destination for "higher end" rendering. I would personally have liked to see all of that brought directly into Renderworks but this may not be the case. I am actually going to spend time learning C4D quite a bit now because of this.

My issue with the intention of Cinema 4D being the destination for 'higher end' renderings is that it means having to purchase a license of Cinema 4D Visualize (at a minimum) on top of Vectorworks Architect.

When you compare that total combined cost to what you would pay for Archicad 20, which basically includes Cinema 4D Visualize, it doesn't make as much sense.

Current retail pricing (USD) from the Vectorworks.net online US Store:

• Vectorworks 2017 Architect: $2,945
• Cinema 4D Visualize: $2,495

TOTAL = $5,440

A new license of Archicad 20 from my local Northern California distributor = $4,995 (not including a current $500 promo offer which makes it almost $1,000 less than Vw + C4D combined).

I point all this out to emphasize that Vectorworks needs to be competitive on features as well as value.

[PVA - Admin]

I agree, however management may indeed go the route (I do NOT know this for sure or have hints that it is happening, I am just guessing) of offering a bundle of the two to price them competitively below other similar solutions. I would personally prefer that we go the opposite direction, but we will have to wait and see. 

[Guest Selin]

Hi all,

First of all thanks for all of your feedback. The feedback from our users was what shaped the Export C4D Options task and reading that you liked it means a lot.

As for the Import C4D Materials feature, the imported textures will mostly look the same as they do in C4D. However, our licensing is very different than a commercial license and we do not have access to most of the fancy reflectance channel stuff. Fortunately though, if you export the scene to Cinema, you'll be able to see the effects coming from those.

[zoomer]

Not to forget that RW is included in VW now with no extra cost now and offers a lot for, especially Architects.
And at at time, with new Exchange Options, when it is for the first time more usable than it created problems.

Ouch, for your pricing offers.
While VW International is here, with VAT, nearly identical to get,
the official (nearly secret*) Archicad price is much higher, maybe because of localization.
*(which always make me think other users get much better offers and only pay half of what I have to)
Therefore I think it is ok to have less features and much more BIM optimization in AC.
I just don't really like differences in build quality.
As many of the hardest no go's were finally eliminated in this release, I'm quite happy to have a more
free, artistic and design oriented solution with VW though.

 

I have absolutely no problems with RW leaving for the first time the path of "renders identically in C4D as it looks in VW"
But I think that differences in Specular Channels vs C4D would exactly diminish the Feature of C4D Material Import :

VW Materials in general, especially the delivered Arroway Materials (service Select only ?), work very well.
If someone wants to import any C4D Materials at all, then to get even higher material quality, like Metals looking even more
metallic and such things, which are highly impacted by exactly that more realistic Specular Channel of C4D.

So if I create C4D Materials using the Beckmann Specular Shader only, and CineRender can do this,
if RW, not able to set this in its own Materials, doesn't touch these C4D Material Settings,
will RW take notice and block these at all ?
Maybe that will work anyway when rendering imported C4D Materials.

Should be tested.

 

[rDesign]

Thank you zoomer for the C4D insights. As always — you are the authority on all things Cinema 4D (among other things I'm sure).

I think that the current 4-channel RW shader functionality is 'good enough' for probably 90% of architectural building materials. That extra 10% would be nice, but unless you do photo-realistic renderings, I don't think it's a huge deal.

When I read the marketing material stating that we could import C4D Materials into Vw, I was happy 

When it was revealed that it was mainly to ease the Vw <—> C4D workflow, I was disappointed 

Don't get me wrong — my occasional rants on the forum happen only because I know that Vw CAN be the best all-around BIM software out there, and I get frustrated and disappointed when it falls short of expectations.

Edited November 13, 2016 by rDesign

[zoomer]

Wow !
C4D Exchange now Exports Heliodons as Physical Sky Systems !!!

And again only 1 single Camera for each VW Camera
(No more 1+2 duplicates)

 

That is so GREAT

 

[zoomer]

On 22.9.2016 at 9:54 PM, zoomer said:

Wow !
C4D Exchange now Exports Heliodons as Physical Sky Systems !!!

And again only 1 single Camera for each VW Camera
(No more 1+2 duplicates)

 

That is so GREAT

 

 

Oh, looks like hope was superseding recognition.

No, nothing changed.

Still a Heliodon gets subdevided into any possible components like

2 sky objects in backgrounds, a sun, a directional light, ...

 

 

Edited November 13, 2016 by zoomer

[Diamond]

On 17/09/2016 at 5:03 AM, rDesign said:

My issue with the intention of Cinema 4D being the destination for 'higher end' renderings is that it means having to purchase a license of Cinema 4D Visualize (at a minimum) on top of Vectorworks Architect.

I have the same issue. As someone who is a documenter, I don't spend enough time in C4D to justify a license just sitting there.

 

Looking at the film industry, I have been looking at their finishing solutions that should give a better outcome – and skip full version of C4D route altogether – but unlike a Photoshop workflow, keep the project within a 3D environment to the final image (or movie). In the film industry, they have specialists that all they do is model, or animate, or light, and so on. There are only so many apps we can learn, and wouldn't it be better to learn a couple at a deeper level?

 

The solutions I have been looking at are – :

• Adobe After Effects with it's built in C4D rendering solution via C4D lite (http://www.adobe.com/au/products/aftereffects.html). You can overcome the limitations of C4D lite by plugging in the full version of C4D. But that is what i am trying to get around.
• Blackmagic Design's Fusion (https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/fusion). Fusion, which is free, and uses node based editing (compared with After Effects' layers based editing). It seems to import all major file formats (FBX, C4D, 3DS, and so on). Often architectural models are very complex, and on large projects node based editing seems to work much better than layer based editing.

@Zoomer

When I have looked at sites like Greyscale Gorilla, they will often get stuff out of C4D as fast as they can into Adobe After Effects for colour treatment and extra effects. After Effects is often faster to render though applying layer effects, than rendering out full models. Obviously After Effects also includes C4D Lite. Is this a better way to go? How much post work do you do on your renders?

 

Because we are already modelling in Vectorworks, isn't it better to finish the lighting and texturing in a products like these? Thanks.

 

 

[zoomer]

1 hour ago, Diamond said:

How much post work do you do on your renders?

 

 

Unfortunately not much the last years if at all

There are other people better in doing so.

 

95% of time I deal with geometry creation, organizing of design versions, and 5 % Rendering

just before the deadline ends. These aren't the most shiny renders but normally they will

end in a powerpoint presentation in front of clients or internal meetings to force decisions.

 

This often leads to setting changes and re-rendering instead of just some PS tweaks which may

be faster but valid for that special image only. It is hard for me to switch to a non parametric

2D or Pixel workflow at the end.

But I've seen people doing exactly the opposite. Renedring some basic volumes and painting

everything in PS. Same for people in post production that would do 80% of my work in Nuke or AE.