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Matt Overton

Is there a way to show a grid of storeys in section viewports?

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What we do currently is create a "line of heights" symbol then place that in the annotation space of every relevant veiwport. Knowing that the symbol can be updated one place and will show correctly in all places. We do the same with plan grids.  The big problem here is that information exists in two places and one of them will be wrong. Someone changes the symbol but not the layer heights and the model is wrong, reverse and the drawings are wrong. This is a major problem as council holds us the written dimension not the overall look. So this is a source of co-ordination nightmares (ie wake up at 3am Sunday Morning then have sleep till arrival in the office to check and deal with)

We did this before Storeys were introduced in VW2013 but thought well at least storeys shows promise. Then again before VW2013 getting usable elevations from a model wasn't as much a thing as it is today.

Given Storeys has been upgraded many times to improve it's function why hasn't it been upgraded to present it's information on the drawings?

This would make it both the easiest and correctest way to set heights in the project and anything not conforming to the information presented is most likely wrong. It would also vastly improve to busy work needed to get model to presentation.

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When you use BIM, as far as i know, I've always used the elevation benchmark tool. It's dynamic, it sets the elevation automatically once you're in the sheet layer viewport annotation area. (when you double click a viewport in sheet layers - pick the annotation option) it will give you the opportunity to call out any elements of the elevations / section in real time.

 

Hope this helps.

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Benchmark tool doesn't track changes made to heights made in the Storeys or layers. So it's still effectively just a manual notation that can be entirely incorrect if not treated with care. Worse it creates multiple instances that could be wrong each reliant on hitting the right snap point. Ok for single referencing but no good for general dimensioning.

 

Using a line of heights symbol at least only gives two locations to co-ordinate.

Having Section views directly report heights from Storey and Layer configuration would reduce this to one, distinctly correct location.

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this should be automated, linked to the story levels, with the ability to turn them on and off in viewports. I'm learning a CAD program that does show that elevations of each story and they are live

 

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14 hours ago, Matt Overton said:

Benchmark tool doesn't track changes made to heights made in the Storeys or layers. So it's still effectively just a manual notation that can be entirely incorrect if not treated with care. Worse it creates multiple instances that could be wrong each reliant on hitting the right snap point. Ok for single referencing but no good for general dimensioning.

 

Using a line of heights symbol at least only gives two locations to co-ordinate.

Having Section views directly report heights from Storey and Layer configuration would reduce this to one, distinctly correct location.

 

Matt, in order for it to work, you have to use BIM. When you reference a live section in a BIM model, those elevation benchmarks will reflect the elevation.

 

Also, if you are doing a 2 dimensional drawing, you can use 2 methods.

1st is use Y value relative to reference elevation. This means that the ground plan (0) elevation must be where y value is zero. In case you need to find it, notice on the benchmark elevation there is an x and y mark location (that is its location in the grid). Now change the number in the Y column to zero and youll notice that the benchmark automatically shows 0'-0" as its elevation.

 

2nd is to use a control point. So you change the location of the benchmark, but modify the control point to the ground plane in order for it to measure the distance from it. Both methods work, but the 1st one and BIM versions are automated.

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No elevation benchmark I've ever placed in an annotation layer in VW on a live section has ever shown a proper elevation without significant manual intervention.

 

@Samuel DerenboimIf you're talking about placing the benchmarks in the design layer directly, they don't show up properly in views that aren't orthogonal to them and seem to lose some of their formatting controls.

Edited by nrkuhl
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1 minute ago, nrkuhl said:

No elevation benchmark I've ever placed in an annotation layer in VW on a live section has ever shown a proper elevation without significant manual intervention.

 

@Samuel DerenboimIf you're talking about placing the benchmarks in the design layer directly, they don't show up properly in views that aren't orthogonal to them and seem to lose some of their formatting controls.

Odd, I've never had a problem, neither in 3d nor in 2d. I just double checked right now.

Are you using the latest version?

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2017 SP5.

 

If placing them in the design layer directly, they do show the correct elevation, but refer to my previous post for the problems related to that.

 

If placing them on annotations, then you have to use one of the methods you list for 2d drawings.  None of which solve the issues of coordination brought up by the OP, or come even vaguely close to matching the functionality of elevation benchmarks and grid lines in other BIM programs, or link to the story information that we have already entered into the model.

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5 hours ago, Samuel Derenboim said:

 

Matt, in order for it to work, you have to use BIM. When you reference a live section in a BIM model, those elevation benchmarks will reflect the elevation.

 

Also, if you are doing a 2 dimensional drawing, you can use 2 methods.

1st is use Y value relative to reference elevation. This means that the ground plan (0) elevation must be where y value is zero. In case you need to find it, notice on the benchmark elevation there is an x and y mark location (that is its location in the grid). Now change the number in the Y column to zero and youll notice that the benchmark automatically shows 0'-0" as its elevation.

 

2nd is to use a control point. So you change the location of the benchmark, but modify the control point to the ground plane in order for it to measure the distance from it. Both methods work, but the 1st one and BIM versions are automated.

 

Yes we use BIMing to producing elevations, sections and 3D's that improved client communications greatly. As other have noted elevation markers can report the correct elevation but if the model changes slightly (or not so slightly as per attachment) marker does not change. In this case comically obvious, in the case of a small change dangerously non-obvious. Is also reliant on snaps but doesn't link to points with a visual marker. 

 

If the first goal of BIM* is "model once --> view thrice" then this is not BIM it's a liability.

In the case of common levels we note each instance makes the problem exponentially worse.

 

Would be very happy to be proven wrong and there to be an existing solution, but the more I look it the more it problems it presents.

Screen Shot 2018-02-15 at 2.25.02 pm.png

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Oh, you mean something like dynamic elevation markers. Now I understand.

 

i agree, currently there isn’t something like that you can do in an annotation viewport. Having a dynamic benchmark tied to levels/stories would be very useful. In fact if the can be interchangeable - I.e. change level / move the benchmark or change the benchmark move the level could solve a lot of problems.

 

all that would have to be done is to have an option in the benchmark oip to tie it to a story / level (for display, not change) and another to tie that particular benchmark to that particular story/ level that if you move it vertically, it will change. 

 

- or when creating a section viewport they would already be integrated into that drawing. I just see pros and cons with both versions. Developing an idea for programmers to work around could prove to be challenging. 

Edited by Samuel Derenboim

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On 16/02/2018 at 11:41 PM, Samuel Derenboim said:

 

- or when creating a section viewport they would already be integrated into that drawing. I just see pros and cons with both versions. Developing an idea for programmers to work around could prove to be challenging. 

 

 

Elevation marker isn't relevant as it's completly independant and useful for one off special annotations. (if it can linked to objects like a dimension better still)

 

Keep it simple. As noted by Jonathan above Viewports should be able to render level markers. Which levels show controlled by layers dialogue. Graphics of the markers by a document setting or a viewport style. Storey's dialogue stays the one place to get the information right. 

 

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While i agree with the idea that it should be implemented with the viewport, my best guess is integrating existing tools is the quickest method to get what you need. I'm afraid an overhaul of the system would be required if they did it the way you wanted, and that means more time for development. we want to try to get the best features with the least time of development.

Edited by Samuel Derenboim

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