symbols

[jmartinarch]

Working on an apartment building. Part of bldg is 2 stories, part is 3 stories.

Design layer for each story. Would like to have a symbol for each unit type. (4-unit types). Attempted making a symbol but noticed that any 2D geometry disappears.

Is this normal behavior?

Should I just create each unit type and then have multiple viewports on a sheet layer? I think annotations would be a nightmare.

Ideas, suggestions, ...

[Jim Smith]

It's likely a Class issue, while the Class of the Symbol may be visible, check to see that the Classes of objects within the Symbol are visible in your Viewport.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Jim Smith

[zoomer]

Would like to have a symbol for each unit type. (4-unit types). Attempted making a symbol but noticed that any 2D geometry disappears.

Is this normal behavior?

Yes it is.

Don't use Symbols.

A Symbol is stored one time in the file (library) and all of its copies will be

exactly the same. The content in a Symbol does not see what is outside of the Symbol.

So things like Wall heights relative to Story Levels and such thing will not work.

It will only work in simple situations as long as you "really" need exact copies.

What you will need is Design Layer Vieports.

That will duplicate your Prototype geometry over your file.

It Synchronizes, so when editing the prototype, the VPs will adapt, keep relative

connections and all things will appear in calculations.

You just have to keep an eye on the VP's effective Z-height as they seem

to do some random things and somehow add their story's Z-height to

their Z-world-height.

[Jim Smith]

Sorry Zoomer, we do this all the time, works like a charm in a Clinic & Pharmacy setting. Having said this, this is a one Storey setting so wall heights are consistent. We also have done this in Multi Unit Residential with common Stairs and WC's.

I do admit that in some cases the Symbol needs to be "broken" & edited. Really helps in stacking Toilets. Something one of my first bosses told me "Forget all the stuff they told you in art college, when it comes to buildings, it all comes down to making sure the toilets stack!"

;-)

[Josh NZ]

I am working on a project with similar requirements, not multistory but multiple block of units made of approx 7 unit templates. Have a file for each unit (x7) then have one master file that has a design layer with the referenced viewports placed here. The sheet layers view this one design layer. Hope thats how the software is intended to be used. Seems to be working so far, just need to be careful with the various settings for each viewport and whether to take on current documents class visibilities or original files visibilities.

[zoomer]

Sorry Zoomer, we do this all the time, works like a charm in a Clinic & Pharmacy setting. Having said this, this is a one Storey setting so wall heights are consistent. We also have done this in Multi Unit Residential with common Stairs and WC's.

I do admit that in some cases the Symbol needs to be "broken" & edited. Really helps in stacking Toilets. Something one of my first bosses told me "Forget all the stuff they told you in art college, when it comes to buildings, it all comes down to making sure the toilets stack!"

;-)

Yes Jim,

as I said, it will work when all Symbol instances can and should be exactly the same.

But there was a problem on german forums that a user missed the Wall Heights,

relative to Story, adapting to the different Story Height in the last floor.

And that this and similar can't work with Symbols and why.

That sounds pretty convincing and logical*.

(* Beside that I heard that Spotlight light fixture (Symbols) behave a little different

and non logical and users fill their symbols with scripts successfully)

A (3D) Viewport can do this and works with calculations too, is BIM ready.

So I think that is the most flexible way to do and should be better communicated by VW.

Please correct if I miss something.

(Beside Viewports being not very comfortable in Design Layers and that Z-Height issue)

References are an option too, if you can live with with the drawbacks of having

different files. In the start post's case Symbols may work also.

At the end it depends on what you prefer.

[AlanW]

Not sure if this is on the same track, but I use symbols with walls for different storeys. The file attached has one symbol as a symbol and the other as a symbol group.

Seems to work with storeys and levels.

Cant attached a file over 2m sorry.

HTH

[zoomer]

Have your Stories and Levels the same Height Definition ?

Normally the Symbol will take the Height Definitions of the Layer it was

created and does not change when placed on another Layer with different

settings.

[AlanW]

Hi, levels have same heights but storeys have their own heights. Rl0 for level 1 and rl3600 for level 2.

The main issue I found when copying walls over is if you leave the change leve ticked you end up with no wall height or if you are copying from a storey related file to another with unrelated storey configuration the wall can't find its definition, so it flattens to 0. As soon as you select the wall and reset its bounds it resolves itself.

[zoomer]

Oh, there are endless options to set Wall heights.

I thought about Wall heights set to things like "level X of Story above"

Which may be 3,20 m on the Story_1 you created your Walls and Symbol.

If that would be 3,60 m for the other Story_2 you want to copy that Symbol,

I think the Walls will stay at 3,20 height.

And I fear, if you open end edit the Symbol placed on Story_2,

the walls will jump to 3,60 height - for all Symbols in the file.

Have to play with these tomorrow and check.

[zoomer]

^ That doesn't work with Symbols as expected.

Which may be 3,20 m on the Story_1 you created your Walls and Symbol.

If that would be 3,60 m for the other Story_2 you want to copy that Symbol,

I think the Walls will stay at 3,20 height.

Yes,

the Wall Height will stay and does not adapt.

And I fear, if you open end edit the Symbol placed on Story_2,

the walls will jump to 3,60 height - for all Symbols in the file.

No,

the Wall Height will not adapt to that Layer at all.

It won't even adapt when you change Top Bound to another Story Level !

As for the 3D Viewports on Design Layers.

Working with these is so cumbersome that I take back my recommendation

to use Viewports instead.

A Viewport can't happen on the same Layer as its Source.

A Viewport can't contain a certain selection only, it is always the whole Layer Content.

A Viewport Border will not work in 3D views (?)

A Viewport will, like a Mesh jump into your Selection Tool as soon as you reach

the area of its boundary box, even no geometry under your cursor.

....

And it looks like the parametric Object Heights bound to "Story above/below"

doesn't work either.