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Sheet Border vs Custom Made Border


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I'm redoing our Template & wonder about other user's preferences vis a vis Sheet Border vs Custom Made Border. What we have been using is a carry over from the days prior to Sheet Views. We have a Layer called TITLE @ 1:1 and the Border & Title Block lives there. Every Sheet has at least 2 Viewports, one with the Title & Border, and one (or more) with either a Plan, Elevation, Section or Detail. All info that pertains to an individual Sheet, is entered via the Annotation Layer. This way the 90% of stuff on a Title Block is in one place & doesn't change. (Scale is always called out: AS NOTED so it's not an issue.)

This works well for us, and I don't see the reason to change to one of the pre formatted Sheet Borders & Title Blocks.

I could be convinced of a different path if there is a compelling reason to do so, so I put to the forum:

What say ye?

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I would say you are doing it wrong regardless. I would argue, that your title block should be a symbol with record text rather a viewport from a design layer with annotations. It just seems more stable and then it is a shareable resource that can coordinate multiple project files.

I moved my last office over to the sheet border tool, and we are working to do the same again at my new place. Obviously, you can have a sheet border with your custom titleblock embedded, so it is not all or nothing. The things I like about the sheet border is the ease of editing and the auto-coordination with sheet layer numbers and names. The issue manager is intriguing but does not quite work as well as I would like. It seems like it will be a little harder to coordinate the sheet border object across multiple projects since I have not figured out how to centrally reference the titleblock in the sheet border across multiple files - so project data will have to be manually imputed.

I made this corny video to explain the benefits to my office:

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Our office has for years used the "one title block on a design layer and show using viewports", however we have just changed to using the titleblock symbol. Would definitely recommend it for the "Project Info" part of the drawing coordination as you can link a contents worksheet and have most information "live through out drawing". Would not recommend it for the "Drawing info" or Revisions. With most plans that we do being more than say 10 pages it's not very useful that there isn't a "copy this info to all titleblocks" like there is with the project info. Like most vectorworks tools you need to have a workaround which for us has been a worksheet that we can enter this "drawing info" and revisions. The alternative is to enter the details into one titleblock then copy and paste to all other sheets. Would love it if some one more knowledgeable could advise a way around this, however have previously posted this request and the solution was to not use that particular titleblock. Seems a shame that there is already a half decent tool ready to use.

Edited by Josh NZ
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Tom:

Sorry for not being clear. The title block in our process is a symbol, but it does live on the 1:1 Layer. We do not allow ANYTHING other than Viewports to reside in the Paper Space, that would have to be an exception. Nice video though it looks like work to me. Perhaps it's me. I am tired of fighting with PIO's that don't do what I want so more & more I'm going back to drawing stuff. Less time + more control = better results.

Josh & Jonathan,

I guess after having looked at the VAA I don't really see the payday (why I ask the question). I'm going to play a little more with the VAA Title block to see if it's really a useful thing or not.

Using the Viewport Method, editing is direct, easy and in one place. Adding specifics to each sheet in Annotation is the Acme of simplicity. Same thing for Revisions and Issue dates.

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so how are you adding revisions?

Hi Jonathon, I add the revisions using the Revision Journal section of the VAA titleblock, then in the "Drawing Info" I add the "drawn by" "checked by" etc fields along with the "other 1234" sections.

Once those are entered I have a worksheet which shows all these fields for each title block in the project, I select each of the cells in the top row which are entered, then paste in all the cells below.

Is there an easier way?

Thank in advance.

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So your Annotion Layer is a normal Design Layer ?

You have 3D Design Layers and "2D" Design Layers for Text, Dimensions and

Title Blocks.

So you need your Section Viewports on a design Layer to draw over, on the

Sheet Layers you have only a complete Viewport combining the

2D Model Output + Annotations.

Again back to your titleblock.

This is a standard VW Titleblock, thought in cm on a Sheet Layer,

but put in a Symbol to scale to 1:1 ?

The Problems with Symbols is that they can't really have any relative input as they

are just a copy of the first Symbol instance, stored in the Symbol library and

all copies are same.

But that does work for a tile block with relative and automated input fields ?

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So by Annotation Layer I mean when one Edits a Viewport the choice is Annotation, Crop, Design Layer & we use Annotation.

-We have two, 2D Design Layers set to 1:1 one for Title Block and another is used for any Graphics, PDF's or Photos

-All other Design Layers are 3D. So sure, when one cuts a section this creates a Section Viewport. Nothing is drawn over other than annotations added to the Annotation Layer.

-I think you're correct Models, Plans, Elevations, Sections, Details they all must be in a Viewport on a Sheet Layer. No exceptions.

The Title Block, is also a Viewport on A Sheet Layer & the Scale is 1:1

The Title Block is "DUMB" Symbol i.e., it is a Graphic object, there are no records attached to it, nothing is automatic. The Project Specific Information (Client, Job Number etc) are greeked-in & the text is magenta so upon opening of a project the symbol is changed for that project. Issue & revision dates are added to the symbol as required.

A standard number of Design Layers & Sheets is pre-established and added to and subtracted from as required. Each Sheet will have a Viewport, say Main Floor with the title and a Drawing Label that specifies the Scale (generally 1:50 as that is the default Design Layer Scale) So the drawing scale is Automated but it is called out on a Viewport. The Title Block has a note "SCALE- AS NOTED"

As I say, nothing is Automated. All Sheet Specific information is TYPED on the Annotation Layer of the Title Block Viewport on a particular Sheet. This stuff has to be entered somewhere, why not directly where one sees it? I guess having played with the various tools these last few days, I just find them all far too complex, for little or no return. But as I say I may be missing something.

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So by Annotation Layer I mean when one Edits a Viewport the choice is Annotation, Crop, Design Layer & we use Annotation.

OK, so that happens on a sheet layer.

(I've seen the design layer option for the first time.

It is just like switching temporary over to design layers)

-We have two, 2D Design Layers set to 1:1 one for Title Block and another is used for any Graphics, PDF's or Photos

Similar to my "standard", except for the title block.

-All other Design Layers are 3D. So sure, when one cuts a section this creates a Section Viewport. Nothing is drawn over other than annotations added to the Annotation Layer.

So no floor plan or section viewports on the design layers near the 3D Model.

Viewports on Sheet Layer with Annotations used.

-I think you're correct Models, Plans, Elevations, Sections, Details they all must be in a Viewport on a Sheet Layer. No exceptions.

I'm not sure about this in VW.

In Archicad Sheet Layers would be the Layout only. The paper space with

(intelligent) title blocks and boarders.

While their standard "Viewports" are fully functional "Design Layers".

Synchronized and editable, which VW's aren't.

That is why I think about doing all stuff including complete 2D on Design Layers.

So all generated plan, section, elevation Viewports sitting on a Design Layer,

doing all 2D stuff that isn't appropriate for the 3D Model happens there.

Finally the whole drawing gets another snapshot by a Viewport on a Sheet layer

Thought that would be what you do.

The Title Block, is also a Viewport on A Sheet Layer & the Scale is 1:1

The Title Block is "DUMB" Symbol i.e., it is a Graphic object, there are no records attached to it, nothing is automatic. The Project Specific Information (Client, Job Number etc) are greeked-in & the text is magenta so upon opening of a project the symbol is changed for that project. Issue & revision dates are added to the symbol as required.

OK, it is a viewport because you will keep edit ability of all project relevant text.

I currently only have an "intelligent" border/title block combo form library,

directly on the Sheet Layers.

(which I am not happy with)

A standard number of Design Layers & Sheets is pre-established and added to and subtracted from as required. Each Sheet will have a Viewport, say Main Floor with the title and a Drawing Label that specifies the Scale (generally 1:50 as that is the default Design Layer Scale) So the drawing scale is Automated but it is called out on a Viewport. The Title Block has a note "SCALE- AS NOTED"

That is what I tried to include to my .sta files.

So your final plans will all have the same paper size, say A0 and you fill them

with viewports until all space covered.

If you would have a set of detail plans on A4 or A3, you would need another

Design Layer's Border and Tittle Block setup, as you can't simply scale that ?

As I say, nothing is Automated. All Sheet Specific information is TYPED on the Annotation Layer of the Title Block Viewport on a particular Sheet. This stuff has to be entered somewhere, why not directly where one sees it? I guess having played with the various tools these last few days, I just find them all far too complex, for little or no return. But as I say I may be missing something.

I think that should all be automated as it is, or should be, already entered somewhere,

in project settings, Sheetlayer and Viewport names and scales.

But not sure if that is possible or fun in VW in the end.

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So no floor plan or section viewports on the design layers near the 3D Model.

Viewports on Sheet Layer with Annotations used.

Sorry I don't know what you mean. The 3D Model is a Viewport that has the appropriate Design Layers Turned on not a thing unto itself and can may be depicted on any Sheet.

That is what I tried to include to my .sta files.

So your final plans will all have the same paper size, say A0 and you fill them

with viewports until all space covered.

If you would have a set of detail plans on A4 or A3, you would need another

Design Layer's Border and Tittle Block setup, as you can't simply scale that ?

The Template file has a Standard Project Set of ARCH D drawings as Sheet Layers plus one each of :

-Letter Size Title Block

-Legal Size Title Block

-Tabloid Size Title Block (portrait),

-Tabloid Size Title Block (landscape),

-and finally a Tabloid Size Sheet with just a Logo & Date (portrait) for sketches

These Sheets are populated with Viewports as required. These title blocks are drawn on the same Design Layer, they just have a different XY coordinate

The only thing Automated is the PRINTED ON date and the Scale from the Drawing Label (from the drawing's Viewport)

PS, all Drawing Boundaries are simply the Title's Crop with Crop set to visible.

I think that should all be automated as it is, or should be, already entered somewhere,

in project settings, Sheetlayer and Viewport names and scales.

But not sure if that is possible or fun in VW in the end.

So all Sheets in the template already have Sheet specific information entered. There is very little to do once the project specific info is entered and if a new Sheet is required, generally we just duplicate a Sheet & edit the Sheet specific info as required. So I don't have any real need to automate anything as far as I can tell. One has to type the information somewhere, why not right on the Sheet's Title Block Viewport in Annotation? As I say, I don't get the busy work of Automating something that doesn't need Automating. Or am I missing a fundamental?

Edited by Jim Smith
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Sorry I don't know what you mean. The 3D Model is a Viewport that has the appropriate Design Layers Turned on not a thing unto itself and can may be depicted on any Sheet.

Sorry, I took you by word that you haven't ANY input on Sheet Layers*

beside the final Viewports.

Now I see, you use annotations, like everyone so some data input on Sheet Layers.

The Template file has a Standard Project Set of ARCH D drawings as Sheet Layers plus one each of :

-Letter Size Title Block

-Legal Size Title Block

-Tabloid Size Title Block (portrait),

-Tabloid Size Title Block (landscape),

-and finally a Tabloid Size Sheet with just a Logo & Date (portrait) for sketches

These Sheets are populated with Viewports as required. These title blocks are drawn on the same Design Layer, they just have a different XY coordinate

The only thing Automated is the PRINTED ON date and the Scale from the Drawing Label (from the drawing's Viewport)

PS, all Drawing Boundaries are simply the Title's Crop with Crop set to visible.

OK, I think got it.

Will have to find a suitable standard for my borders and blocks now.

One has to type the information somewhere, why not right on the Sheet's Title Block Viewport in Annotation?

As I say, I don't get the busy work of Automating something that doesn't need Automating. Or am I missing a fundamental?

I just had the idea that all title information is already somewhere in the file

and should be read and automatically included.

Maybe there is missing some information in VW, that should be there, at a central

place in Document Settings + Viewport/Sheet names.

Not much experience, so likely that I am missing something.

And of course, if it works for you, that's perfect.

Even if you forgot something,

VW often offers functionality where at the end you sometimes think, hmmh,

had I done this manual by hand it would have been faster all in all.

So I also do not judge all those people that work 2D entirely.

*

It was you who brought me to the idea to try to draw EVERYTHING on design Layers.

Even Section, Plan and Elevation Viewports, to annotate on Design Layers.

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You're definitely right about the fact there is no one correct way Jim.

I use a custom titleblock in my office and its applied only in sheet layers at 1:1

I make use of a "titleblock" record that takes advantage of the PROJECT, SHEET AND GENERAL categories. I love being able to change information only once that applies to all titleblocks used in a project. I run my revisions from the GENERAL category on a sheet per sheet basis. I could have that revision info in the SHEET category but I like that its shown all on its own.

There is probably even more that could be done with titleblocks that I'm not aware of but that will have to be for another time.

I love everyones thoughts here in this thread. Great to read how everyone handles the mundane yet important part of organizing a set of plans.

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To get that right,

if I want to draw a borders/titleblocks on a Design Layer to put them on Sheet Layer Viewports,

1:1 means 1:1 in Paper size, with the Viewport on Sheet Layer set to 1:1

Not drawing the border around your building like a soccer place, right ?

For the automation I think it should work as MarkvI said.

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