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Phil hunt

Vectorworks 2017

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That makes much sense.

But users don't.

For me,

as soon as the new version is downloaded there will be a project copy opened.

They stay beside each other until it works. Sometimes I even keep both versions

in sync for months.

;)

Some projects started in the VW 2014 area,

I don't want to work in VW 2014 anymore.

And there was often a lot of work to do to to bring older projects in a new VW version.

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I very much agree with delaying a file upgrade until after a project is over, or only starting out with a new software version after it gets its first patch. These are both extremely sound practices and I encourage them fully. My thanks to everyone here who promotes the same.

I am a fan of delaying until SP1 before deploying, but not upgrading an existing project is just not feasible. We have 30+ active projects and it is a logistical quagmire to try and run dual versions of the software. If you are strict about not upgrading existing projects, considering that projects can take multiple years to complete, you are actually talking about running 3 versions of the software at the same time - just a nightmare.

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I mean if it isn't possible it isn't possible. The advice is mainly for when you CAN wrap up a project in 3-6 months in an older version while starting new ones in the new version. It is of course specific to each shop, but where possible it's wise.

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It is wise and professional to keep projects in their original software version and

it is wise to not even use a software or OS before SP2.

But less thrilling and emotional.

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There's a big difference between a new version of a program and a new version of the file format. Doing a VW 2017 without changing the file format would be more like a service pack, even if it requires loading a whole new executable file and associated utilities and resources. Doing a VW 2017 with a new file format, the usual practice, requires that we convert all files with previous formats if we want to work on that project in the new version. I have requested that file formats change only every 3 years, so we don't have this kind of problem. There are a lot of technical reasons this is difficult, particularly if the new version requires new object types. But new features don't always require new object types, and planning to implement that kind of feature only every other or every third year seems like a reasonable way to bring more stability to the program and less hassle for users.

BTW, I have not noticed any issues with translating files to the new format in several years now. 2008 to 2009 was, if I recall, a big problem, but for the work I do conversion has become more problem-free.

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Jim - To pick your brain - what are the potential pitfalls of upgrading files to the new version? Are there certain upgrades that are more dangerous than others? Certain objects that are more likely to get corrupted?

You provide such a nice upgrading tool, I had no idea that the party line was to NOT upgrade existing projects.

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The logic is mainly this, same rule as when working with printers:

"Is it working just fine? Then don't mess with it."

However, this attitude comes mostly from over-concern about encountering issues. It's been a pretty long time since we had wide ranging file upgrade problems, I think as mentioned earlier the last really problematic transition was between 2008 and 2010, where we introduced a new solids modeling engine that had to recalculate all the 3D solids geometry within a file and in some cases, wouldn't allow impossible (self-intersecting) geometry like the old engine did, which led to alteration of user's files in an invasive manner.

Eventually, and I know the first portion of this comes in 2017 but won't majorly affect users for another version or two, our file format rework will be complete and we won't need to have a new VWX version for each year. We will be able to only upgrade the format once every 4-5 years or only as needed. This will eventually mean that you won't need to export back to older versions within a range, only if the format handling was different. This isn't just important for version compatibility, but will also let us add the ability for multiple users to work with the same project concurrently, add automatic compression, as well as other things like that.

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I think VW 2014 to VW 2015 was no issue.

For me, as VW 2016 changed the Rendering System, the renders looked different

and there was a lot work finding suitable render settings for difficult interior

situations again.

And the client asked for the "same" look as he was presenting these in comparison

to the older renders.

Normally converting a file to a new App version should be no problem.

If there will be a little feature update to the stair tool, your stair should still look

the same.

But as you will never know, it is a good idea to examine the new file copy if it

really works the same until you go on working in the new version.

A more important thing is App SP0 stability.

You should test your workflow, if there are bigger quirks concerning your work

you should wait until fixed.

Like VW 2016 started to kill my Cameras which it still does so maybe I should

have waited until SP5 comes out.

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Eventually, and I know the first portion of this comes in 2017 but won't majorly affect users for another version or two, our file format rework will be complete and we won't need to have a new VWX version for each year. We will be able to only upgrade the format once every 4-5 years or only as needed. This will eventually mean that you won't need to export back to older versions within a range, only if the format handling was different. This isn't just important for version compatibility, but will also let us add the ability for multiple users to work with the same project concurrently, add automatic compression, as well as other things like that.

This makes me very excited, especially the compression part! My average project file for a theatre show is in the 150-200MB range. Because I keep multiple archived versions and a snapshot copy of each issue file it can make for some large project folders.

For me, as VW 2016 changed the Rendering System, the renders looked different

and there was a lot work finding suitable render settings for difficult interior

situations again.

And the client asked for the "same" look as he was presenting these in comparison

to the older renders.

Yes. All of my renderings were affected too.

Kevin

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For me, as VW 2016 changed the Rendering System, the renders looked different

and there was a lot work finding suitable render settings for difficult interior

situations again.

And the client asked for the "same" look as he was presenting these in comparison

to the older renders.

another reason not to touch the software in the production environment. i may repeat myself, though.

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Eventually, and I know the first portion of this comes in 2017 but won't majorly affect users for another version or two, our file format rework will be complete and we won't need to have a new VWX version for each year. We will be able to only upgrade the format once every 4-5 years or only as needed. This will eventually mean that you won't need to export back to older versions within a range, only if the format handling was different.

Wow! Wow. Wow.

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Hi Jim,

Will it be possible to start a project in vw2016+c4d and then continue it with vw2017+c4d? Will there be any issues with this workflow? Will the work done in c4d unravel when vw2017 updates the model?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

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I would be very cautious.

Keep your VW 2016 installation, your VW file as well as the C4D file.

Create copies and try.

As there are announced major changes for C4D exchange, which are highly

needed, I think that can't work.

If it will really work at the end anyway - they did not change enough !!!

I expect that the new exchange will be be so much better than VW 2016 > C4D,

that it might be useful to do the work again and exchange from scratch to

profit from improvements in the projects future.

It depends on which changes you did in C4D.

Changes in Lights, Cameras are no problem, just copy them out of the VW Exchange

Folder/Null Object.

For all organizational or geometry editing, they should be marked as edited and kept

kept in C4D. Which, on the other hand, means that you lost synchronization to VW

counterparts anyway.

For Materials, if you kept the names, you can save all your Materials to an external

C4D file. You can replace all file materials by those in the external file in one go.

(In case VW will not change the way how materials are saved or named in 2017 Exchange

- wich would be very unsatisfying to me)

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totally agree with Altivec.

I use VW & RW for presentations and main gripe is texturing and modeling. 3D modeling interface is awkward compared to what I've seen in Sketchup (push-pool on the fly, and some organic / fluid shapes are impossible with VW. When I model in VW I need to keep switching between orthographic views and often is frustrating and difficult. Is there a better way? Any good tutorials? I've been using VW since Minicad days, so consider myself an advanced user, but would like to know if there's a better way to model...

No point in having VR with low quality renders.

carpalmer

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It sounds as if you have kept old habits while the software has advanced. Most of what you have mentioned has been vastly improved over the last 3 years.

The push-pull is not quite as good as SketchUp - but it's pretty good.

Organic modeling is MUCH better than SketchUp now with the sub-division objects.

You can model while staying in 3D most of the time. Sometimes you can not get the snap you need - so you might need to switch to orthogonal.

Check out their Youtube channel - they have been releasing a pretty robust modeling and rendering video series recently.

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thx Tom, I knew they had been improvements, will search them out to better my process.

carpalmer

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The push pull is 'ok' and in actual fact I quite like it.

Sub-D is 'ok' but will get better in the next release with the ability to use existing objects. Su has Sub-D that someone has written and its pretty decent so yes you can do organic stuff.

Sub-D in VW is awful for texturing and it is its massive downfall and means it cannot be used in all seriousness.

VR will be interesting but agreed that without decent texturing it could look quite poor but I am super optimistic about it.

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Quote

 

3rd of September

... a countdown is overdue, is it not? :D

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I think that was the time in 2015 when we got first feature information teasers for VW 2016,
which we got in may this year.

I would not have problems to see everything 2017 revealed from today.
I don't think the competitors can copy all these features in a 2 week time frame to release
their products one day before 9/14 and make the deal.
(Given the fact that they have released their products already)

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18 minutes ago, zoomer said:

I think that was the time in 2015 when we got first feature information teasers for VW 2016,
which we got in may this year.

I would not have problems to see everything 2017 revealed from today.
I don't think the competitors can copy all these features in a 2 week time frame to release
their products one day before 9/14 and make the deal.
(Given the fact that they have released their products already)

Yep,

also, your signature is set to VW2017 already!? Thats forward thinking right there. :)

  • Like 1

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18 minutes ago, Andrew Davies said:

So - when does anyone expect / think / know 2017 will be out??

As per September 14 you cannot upgrade to a new version of Vectorworks if it is more than 4 versions back from the then current version, so it is not unlikely that the VW2017 will be released on or shortly after September 14.

Edited by Art V

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I am not able to provide an exact date at this time.

However, the previous few years we have released mid September and I do not expect this to change this year.

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