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Whats the point of layer scale?


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Therefore I switched a project to 1:1 DL to look deeper into what these bad

influences may be.

Indeed it requires heavy zooming out each time I switch from SLs backt to DLs.

EDIT : Even when swithing from a Camera Perspaktive back to Top PLAN !!!)

(But wasn't it until 2015, that VW automatically "zoomed to objects" when

switching views, or juts a lucky DL scale selection by me ?)

Seems that VW 2016 ignores the VW preference :

"Center on Objects after View Change"

But the need for Viewport zooming between scaled SLs and 1:1 DLs

seems to be solved by setting VW preference :

"Separate Sheet Views" :)

While 3DConnection Devices Movements will not work in 1:1 DLs until you

heavily accelerate movement settings in driver.

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And yet the problem will still remain. In the future:

I'm walking around the jobsite with my VR glasses on, and VW is projecting my model onto the existing site. I want to know how big the proposed wall will be in front of me. Using the dimension tool, I touch virtually on corner, then the next, then swipe down to see the dimension. I can't read it! I need to scale up the dimension text to fit the real world ( Or do I enter into virtual annotation mode where the text has a predetermined legibility ).

Then I want to show the changes to the client. We walk over to the VW viZpod and look at the 3d model, this time reducing the scale of the building to 1/8th" so that it we can fly over it. What size are the dimensions then?

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...In the future:

I'm walking around the jobsite with my VR glasses on, and VW is projecting my model onto the existing site. ..

Before VR there was no credible path to matching the low cost, durability, portability, and all-weather readability of a 24"x36" or 36" x 48" sheet, in a flat-panel display form factor.

VR has the potential (pending at least another 3-5 years of development, maybe more) to finally *start* to challenge paper ARCH-C and ARCH-D-size job site plans for some purposes.

VR projection neatly side-steps the limitations of flat-panel displays, but even if 3D VR *totally* replaces printed plans, there will always be a need for clear 2D Top/Plan, Elevation, & Section VR projections at various scales.

As VW develops it should never lose sight of the importance of being able to produce accurate & legible 2D slices of a model at any angle, distance, depth, or scale, including annotations.

Edited by Gilbert Osmond
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Or should we better renounce of Sheet Layers at all in 3D BIM too and use

Design Layer Viewports only - with different Scales :)

DLVP ?

Not exactly what I expected.

I thought as Sections they will auto-update.

And if it is "flat" it is screen orientation only ?

More successful with a 3D VP copying my hole building.

Beside that the VP gets an arbitrary height ?

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Donald Wardlaw basically covered the same workflow we use. We may have additional details, single line drawings, plan and elevation all on saved view with various scales. Everything is in 2d top plan in this workflow.

If we operate in 3D the model is done in a DL and then we create a viewport on a SL.

Tho I have experimented with drawings that have various connected viewports back to the model, these are often the files Im most confused on. Especially if that drawing wasn't created by me. Im often stuck trying to find out where things were annotated, how they are connected to what model, weather its referenced in from another file or internal. I typically can figure it out after a while, but I guess its the various ways you can go about it.

I would really love to see more webinars showing a 3d model with the highest level of connected viewports of all kinds, sections included, and then watch how they are all intertwined and updated, along with more depth on how the set the desired views line wieghts and classes.

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OK, often full 2D workflow only.

Even that is quite complex and I don't oversee it.

But looks that working with DLVP's isn't much fun either.

As I did not often work with construction documents and never had much

fun with it in CAD, I'm quite 2D dummy.

I work 3D only because I model for Visualization or any other 3D purpose

like collision models. I do not create construction documents but of course

some 2D representations for illustration and checking.

So for me it is MUCH easier to create Sections and Floor Plans from my 3D

model on Sheet Layers. They lay there and update (manually) with the model.

But I have doubts if at all it is possible to bring that generated output to a level

you expect from your 2D workflow, concerning CAD standards, visibility an such.

If there is so much 2D rework over it you will lose the automatic updates to the

model. And maybe it is much more complicated to overview where your 2D is

lagging the model.

And I still am not sure which 2D has to happen in DLs, like constrained things

as dimensions, or what has to and can happen in VP annotations on Sheet Layers

only.

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What your saying makes perfect sense, and you are correct that often its just doesn't work well for a 2D workflow, which is OK.

We at one point had a few sites that involved some architectural aesthetics work that did justify the 3D work flow you are referring to. However another person worked on it, and he left.

When it was my time to work in the model it seemed that things were often done in a way that worked, but was inconsistent.

So that is where the confusion comes in. I just think its something that as you break into it has some confusion and a relatively steep curve. VW seems to be working on providing that clarify more often these days tho, which is great!

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What your saying makes perfect sense, and you are correct that often its just doesn't work well for a 2D workflow, which is OK.

We at one point had a few sites that involved some architectural aesthetics work that did justify the 3D work flow you are referring to. However another person worked on it, and he left.

When it was my time to work in the model it seemed that things were often done in a way that worked, but was inconsistent.

So that is where the confusion comes in. I just think its something that as you break into it has some confusion and a relatively steep curve. VW seems to be working on providing that clarify more often these days tho, which is great!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I know I'm late to the game here, but I just want to chime in and say I'm glad this conversation is happening.

Our (structural) engineering office works almost exclusively in 2D, using the same set-up described by HEengineering and Donald Wardlaw above - Top/Plan Design Layers used for nearly everything, although we will go to Sheet Layers and Viewports for large projects where floor plans split across pages.

(For the record, we do a bit of coordination work in Revit at a low/mid-LOD level when requested, but it doesn't get requested as often you might think...2D output with paper in mind is still our main mode of work.)

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3D work flow you are referring to. However another person worked on it, and he left.

Ouch,

hope that was not because of VW 3D BIM workflow :o

Again, I understand the general reasons to work 2D only - especially in VW.

Just surprised that there are so many doing so.

The future's direction towards BIM is clear though.

I think it will need much more in improvements in VW BIM workflow and

construction quality as well as better education, tutorials and "BIM marketing".

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