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Andrew Davies

3DConnexion Mouse

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Morning all

 

I've been playing around a little more with the various settings this morning (I have been so head down in projects recently I haven't had time to mess about with settings).  I'm using the Space Mouse Pro Wireless.

 

It seems there are the following Navigation settings :

 

Ortho views

  • 2D
  • Target Camera Mode
  • Object Mode

Perspective Views

  • 2D
  • Object Mode
  • Helicopter
  • Target Camera Mode
  • Camera Mode

I wish this could be simplified (though know it's a 3DConnexion thing - not a Vectorworks thing) as it just seems confusing.  Don't use 2D at all (only just found the Switch rotations on/off button - that caused quite a few frustrated moments these past weeks! 😳😳😳) and don't see the need for both Helicopter and Camera modes.  Can't even work out the difference between Object Mode, Target Camera Mode and Camera mode.

 

Or am I missing something fundamental?

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4 hours ago, Andrew Davies said:

Morning all

 

I've been playing around a little more with the various settings this morning (I have been so head down in projects recently I haven't had time to mess about with settings).  I'm using the Space Mouse Pro Wireless.

 

It seems there are the following Navigation settings :

 

Ortho views

  • 2D
  • Target Camera Mode
  • Object Mode

Perspective Views

  • 2D
  • Object Mode
  • Helicopter
  • Target Camera Mode
  • Camera Mode

I wish this could be simplified (though know it's a 3DConnexion thing - not a Vectorworks thing) as it just seems confusing.  Don't use 2D at all (only just found the Switch rotations on/off button - that caused quite a few frustrated moments these past weeks! 😳😳😳) and don't see the need for both Helicopter and Camera modes.  Can't even work out the difference between Object Mode, Target Camera Mode and Camera mode.

 

Or am I missing something fundamental?

It is indeed confusing! I'm not sure that it's true that it's a 3dconnexion thiing rather than a VW thing though.

 

I basically only ever use helicopter mode, in perspective.

 

Camera mode seems similar to Helicopter but doesn't keep the horizon straight so is like flying the helicopter drunk.

 

Target Camera and Object modes are similar in that they rotate the viewpoint around the model. Object mode seems to rotate around the 0,0 origin (so not much use for anything except very small objects) and target mode - I think - rotates around whatever object you have selected in the model.

 

It is annoying that the navigation sometimes seems to flip into modes I don't want - I then have to go through them all to get back to Helicopter. I've not found a way of locking it to Helicopter.

Edited by line-weight

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6 minutes ago, line-weight said:

 

It is annoying that the navigation sometimes seems to flip into modes I don't want - I then have to go through them all to get back to Helicopter. I've not found a way of locking it to Helicopter.

That's kind of the conclusion I came to - why so many modes though!

 

Hope this is improved for 2018 - a way of locking it to a certain mode - the 3D mouse driver functionality has come on a lot since I started using it though.

 

Thanks,

Andrew

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Friends.

 

Just use Helicopter Mode, for vwx that is the best way to start getting use to the navigator.

I going to push for changing the name to "Drone Mode" that seems more current.

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ah, something else I forgot. Try configurating your buttons to tools or modes that make sense to you, don't get stuck with something you don't need. My small navigator has Left button set to radial menus with rendering modes and Right button with switching projections between isometric and perspective. Remember, helicopter mode works great in perspective.

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Just watched Jim's video about 3D Space Mouse settings on the VSS Portal (Training>Tips and tricks).  Great video as always Jim.

 

I see that the demo is done on the Space Mouse Enterprise model.  I also watched a review of the enterprise and it looks really nice (am tempted).

 

In particular, the 3 x view buttons.  On the review I watched on YouTube, you set these to a view by holding them down for a second or two.  From then on - pressing that view button briefly, took you to that programmed view.  Now that looks cool.  I can see that being a real selling point.  Very useful.

 

Anyone know if this is this supported in Vectorworks?  I think the demo I saw was using Solidworks. @zoomerI think I remember you saying you have one?

 

Also - anyone know if the Icons on the Enterprise are now supported in Vectorworks?

 

Thanks,
Andrew

 

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I use both devices. All shortcuts assigned to the buttons makes modeling and viewing go faster.

 

icons? Negative, no yet, just names.

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I have one, currently back in the cupboard again :)

 

That "Save(ed) View" mode by pressing View123 buttons for some seconds worked

for me in VW.

 

Not sure if there are VW Icons on Enterprise Displays under Windows already,

on Mac there are at least no Icons at all for any App.

And maybe these won't ever come on Mac.

Edited by zoomer

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On 03/09/2017 at 5:13 PM, zoomer said:

I have one, currently back in the cupboard again :)

Why?  Did you not like it?

 

I've got the enterprise kit arriving tomorrow. 

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I don't find the Enterprise keys positions around the bubble very ergonomically and don't really

need the 3D navigation.

So I went back to my Wacom Remote for extra keys.

 

Also I had tight deadlines lately and worked with Cintiq upright and CADMouse and keyboard.

Then there is no need for extra keys for me at all.

 

I like it clean and simple, so currently back to Pen on flat horizontal Display and Keyboard only.

Wacom Remote mostly sleeping. I use Fit View in VW or Safari backwards from time to time :$

 

As I use Pen Input,

I had to pull out all needed "Commands", that VW hides in the Top Menu, into my RMB Option Menu.

That works reasonable.

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I have this file where I am replacing boxes for 3d projects we've done over these past months.  Actually thanks to "project sharing" many collaborators are providing a large contribution.

Navigation using these devices has really no comparison. The only drawback is that I am personally becoming so dependent on these gadgets, more productive yes but spoiled at the same time :) 

drone_navigation.mp4

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I'm actually a bit mystified why they aren't more popular. To me they seem essential as soon as you're working properly in 3D.

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Just received my Enterprise kit (with the regular mouse). Too busy to try it out  but looking forward to giving it a go. If the view buttons work as advertised it will be a real boon

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Like the most basic object manipulations,

like move, rotate* and scale,

I am doing the same options for Viewport Navigation since 20+ years

and never missed anything.

 

And that is what I want the 3DConnexion devices to do.

Move, Rotate* and Zoom.

But especially with that they are doing hard.

(In C4D and especially VW - have to reverse all axes)

 

 

*With View Rotation I mean the same rotation as in the past,

rotating Geometry and not myself, around a View Center,

without any orbit rotation = called lock horizon.

 

I never had any interested in any fly over the last 18 years and

still don't have today.

 

 

So if I am forced to have my left hand on the keyboard anyway

and have that function, why should I walk between keyboard and

3D Bubble ....

 

And those things are about 400 €.

Edited by zoomer

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Yes, that is totally ok.

That is why it is most times locked in my cupboard again.

 

I am a bit sorry for my Enterprise,

as I am aware that its chances to meet a suitable user/partner from there are pretty small.

But that's life.

 

Other Enterprises may have a better partners and lifes.

Edited by zoomer
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Just tried the Navigator out - only quickly as I need to dive into Excel and finish a budget :(

 

So far - VERY pleased.  As expected, only text, not icons on the display when using with Vectorworks - but that is no big deal for me.

 

LOVE the extra physical buttons (Delete, space, Tab etc which I didn't have on my Spacemouse Wireless Pro)

 

The 3 saved view keys though are great - They will be REALLY useful.  Hold down one of View 1 to View 3 and you get the saved view dialogue box.  Then pressing that same key briefly takes you to that saved view.  Once a view is saved, holding it down a second or two again lets you redefine that view.  I can see me using these A LOT - especially as it is so quick to set / redefine a view.

 

Also so useful having left / right, top / bottom, Front / Back views under your thumb.  (On my Spacemouse Pro I used them a lot, but you could only do 3 views - not 6 as I can now)

 

Very pleased.  Will add more when I have used it more.

 

I also got the CAD mouse - jury still out on that, think I may be going back to my Apple Magic Mouse - but we will see.

 

 

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Fit to object button is one of my favorites. Also, I think I added a change projection command to one of the view keys and that I use a lot. Basically all I use is perspective now, I guess I abandoned isometric views since navigation is not really for that. As you noticed, the whole environment is set in Vectorworks for moving around the model as the first person, settings for other modeling programs are based on rotating the object, I guess it is ok if I am designing a wrench tool but not intuitive for architectural buildings.

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2 hours ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

....settings for other modeling programs are based on rotating the object, I guess it is ok if I am designing a wrench tool but not intuitive for architectural buildings.

 

The problem with this approach is lots of us using VW aren't actually designing architectural buildings..... I need the ability to work easily on individual objects and on larger, composed spaces. This was one of my big issues when VW initially started supporting these 3d mice, initial support was designed around walkthrough mode. Walkthrough mode is only useful for a small segment of my design work.

 

Kevin

 

Edited by Kevin McAllister
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2 hours ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

all I use is perspective now, I guess I abandoned isometric views since navigation is not really for that. As you noticed, the whole environment is set in Vectorworks for moving around the model as the first person, settings for other modeling programs are based on rotating the object, I guess it is ok if I am designing a wrench tool but not intuitive for architectural buildings.

 

Well,

that modality preference in the whole VW development is clearly visible,

at least, since it this is the only option since latest SP.

 

And I think the majority of users also agrees that first person/Walkthrough mode is preferable.

I couldn't imagine, for example@digitalcarbonbeing able to live and work without it at all.

I personally just get ill by this, I could vomit on my Cintiq after 3 minutes.

 

But at least I can and did mirror the Axes of my Navigator to keep my lunch inside.

 

May be that this modality preference is also the reason why there is still no proper Zoom Tool in VW.

(letting aside not working in a non-tool-interrupting way like STRG+MMB or MMB do)

The current option either exists in a questionable 1st Marquee Mode

(zoom out with the Marquee ?!)

or a 2nd nearly useful Mode, which is in fact simply a Walkthrough Mode again, with its permanent

acceleration behavior.

I heavily miss a standard Zoom Tool when Scroll Wheel Zoom isn't available or not working

adequately in CAD.

(like for Magic Mouse, Wacom Remote, Pen Usage, ...)

 

 

But Luis,

what did you before the 3D Connexion Devices where available.

Did you always renounce of the STRG+MMB temporarily Fly Over (Object Mode) and used the

(tool intermitting) Walk Through Tool instead ?

Edited by zoomer

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1 hour ago, Kevin McAllister said:

 

The problem with this approach is lots of us using VW aren't actually designing architectural buildings....

 

Kevin

 

 

 

I think,

beside my rollercoaster handicap,

that is just a personal preference about how you see things.

 

I see on comments here that the large majority of those who use 3D Navigators,

are totally excited about the "Helicopter" Mode.

 

Luis sees the whole Architecture and dives into it.

 

For me, if I want to see the back of my coffee mug - I turn it around - and do not walk around it.

If I have to examine a real Building, I am forced to "walk through" of course.

But for my work on a computer screen, even I mostly work on larger Building projects,

I still see them as Models in a smaller scale.

So I want to turn my Model into my view and have no ambitions to walk around them.

 

Also I mostly work on a part of it only like with clip Volume. And, I mostly get a design and have not

much influence on it so seldom a need to really go inside and see it as a whole.

 

But your mileage may vary.

 

 

 

 

Edited by zoomer

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1 hour ago, zoomer said:

 

But Luis,

what did you before the 3D Connexion Devices where available.

Did you always renounce of the STRG+MMB temporarily Fly Over (Object Mode) and used the

(tool intermittent) Walk Through Tool instead ?

 

I used them all and all the time, shortcuts and all and I thought I was fast and precise.........now I drive in style :)

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I guess the beauty in this is that if we work in this 9 hr a day we must enjoy the time seating in front of the screen.

To modeling, there is not a single approach, the device settings is what makes the difference. Adjust them to your liking and we are ready to roll.

 

Here are mine.

 

Screen Shot 2017-09-07 at 11.37.38 AM.png

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14 minutes ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

 

I used them all and all the time, shortcuts and all and I thought I was fast and precise.........now I drive in style :)

 

 

OK, I understand,

you also worked the old way in the past and didn't miss something,

but with newer tools and options you realized there is a better way for you.

 

I am quite picky and realize immediately while doing things that something is missing or wrong,

long before I have any idea what it is.

Then I start thinking about what it could be and sometimes find a reason or a potential improvement.

In case of the standard view rotation, or flyover as it is called in VW, such realization never happened

for me so far. Even after 3D Navigators came.

 

But I like that many others do see improvements and like themselves helicoptering.

 

 

Edited by zoomer

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1 hour ago, zoomer said:

 

 

OK, I understand,

you also worked the old way in the past and didn't miss something,

but with newer tools and options you realized there is a better way for you.

 

I am quite picky and realize immediately while doing things that something is missing or wrong,

long before I have any idea what it is.

Then I start thinking about what it could be and sometimes find a reason or a potential improvement.

In case of the standard view rotation, or flyover as it is called in VW, such realization never happened

for me so far. Even after 3D Navigators came.

 

But I like that many others do see improvements and like themselves helicoptering.

 

 

 

I have the background of architecture design originally and also use helicopter mode mostly with 3D mouse.

Zoomer,

Could you try some of the sample applications provided by the 3d connection driver and see which navigation mode makes the most sense to you?

I am trying to find any users that have different preferences to the people who like helicoptering and see what's the mental model behind it.

 

Thanks!!

Edited by Chih-Pin

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