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Andrew Davies

3DConnexion Mouse

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20 hours ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

@Andrew Daviesif you look closely to the view keys, these have a box with a letter and a small letter in blue color, this means that if I press the key at a normal speed I can switch to a view, say right but if I keep holding the key down a bit longer I invoke Left. Same aspects with the other keys. Totally I have at my disposal 35 shortcuts. That also means I am getting lazy at moving the mouse, click the menu and scroll until I find what I need.

58d43f1e780f3_ScreenShot2017-03-23at5_32_48PM.png.cf9fe082c2cfd642b6198b9f899f1300.png

Bobbins - mine doesn't have those blue icons - and holding the key down doesn't switch.  Oh well - can't have everything!

 

20 hours ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-24 at 18.04.04.png

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@Luis M RuizHi Luis - Any more pointers on best practices using the 3D Connexion SpaceMouse Pro Wireless?  For example - the "Switch Navigation" Button (Button 1 for me) - that's so confusing!  I get 2d Navigation - but what's the difference between "Target Camera Mode" and "Object Mode" Navigation?  They seem rotate the model in the opposite direction to each other.  I would rather just have one mode so I can get used to to just one way of operating it!

 

 

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I think it would be nice to have the 3D Mode Settings for the device from within VW

by its quick settings bar. I want to use "Flyover Mode" only.

 

Currently I have to switch 3D Mode every time I enter VW or a File from Walkthrough

back to Flyover.

It is ok that a 2D Top Plan View works always in the "2D Mode"

I even would like a setting to automatically assign that 2D mode to all orthogonal

2D (!) Views like Front, Back, Left, Right, Top and Bottom.

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Try switching your view to perspective normal and set navigation mode to helicopter. It seems to me this is the only way I work with it now. Rare for me to model in isometric or attempting to rotate objects to add or select geometry surfaces.

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Thanks Luis,

 

I will recheck my settings when I'm back.

The standard Button to switch between 3D Modes is the "menu" (?) button.

(The one lowest on the left)

I think in Perspective Views the default would be Flyover as I prefer.

I like to use 3D Views in Isometrics with perspective off.

I just don't like it that VW defaults to the Walkthrough mode.

 

BTW,

there is a 10.4.4 Driver Update for Mac users out now.

(From March 9)

 

 

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@Luis M Ruiz

 

OK, larger changes for 3DConnexion usage.

The menu button to change between these 3 : Flyover, Walkthrough and 2D mode disappeared

in either SP3 or 10.4.4. It now brings Space Settings like I'm used from my other Apps.

 

Fine, as I use Flyover only anyway.

I see no (more) differences between Isometrics and Perspectives now.

So I should get my wished behavior by simply mirroring all axis.

 

EDIT :

Works ok for me now.

What I miss,

when I am in my Flyover tool, or temporary by MMB+CTRL, in Selected Mode,

Flyover Rotates around that Selection.

Space Nav will not set the rotation center. It will only use such a selection center,

when done by the Flyover tool before.

(Although Space Nav shows that Custom Origin Icon in the Selection Center.

 

Also the View Center Mode rotation origin does not work.

 

I would like to have always View Center Origin, except when there is a Selection.

Edited by zoomer
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On 24/03/2017 at 6:34 PM, Andrew Davies said:

@Luis M RuizHi Luis - Any more pointers on best practices using the 3D Connexion SpaceMouse Pro Wireless?  For example - the "Switch Navigation" Button (Button 1 for me) - that's so confusing!  I get 2d Navigation - but what's the difference between "Target Camera Mode" and "Object Mode" Navigation?  They seem rotate the model in the opposite direction to each other.  I would rather just have one mode so I can get used to to just one way of operating it!

 

 

I have the SpaceMouse Pro as well.

 

Have just updated to SP3 and also updated the 3dConnexion driver to 10.4.4. I've set the mouse to the VW defaults for now. They seem better than before. This should make life a lot easier for people starting to use the 3DC devices for the first time (previously had to fiddle about with the settings manually and make them match a screenshot in a Knowledgebase article, not ideal).

 

Previously the "menu" button on my SpaceMouse Pro did the switch between navigation types which as you say is now mapped to the button 1 as default.

 

Like Lius M Ruiz I always use "Helicopter" mode and normal perspective. The only time I have been using the "switch navigation" button up till now is to get back into helicopter mode when VW throws me into some other mode unexpectedly, which is annoying. Going to see if that bad habit has disappeared with these latest updates.

 

As mentioned on another thread, I have found that I need to set design layers to a scale of 1:1 in order to make navigation manageable at close quarters (if say I have layers set at 1:50 then navigation when looking closely at details is unuseably jumpy).

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Unfortunately and fortunately, Vectorworks allows you to set different scales for different layers. The 3d navigator to me feels ultra slow when creating shapes 1:1 scale, probably good for testing and learning volume creation and navigating at same time, I'd recommend this for beginners, but the majority of the projects I create are set to 1/4" scale or 1/8", yes the navigator moves mega fast, so in that case I go back to my 3dconnexion settings and move the speed slider to 25%.

 

About tips, since 2015 OpenGL responds really nice and love it when I model using ambient occlusion, great to view shapes with no color. Now, again, OpenGL, since navigation and modeling is the reason for me to seat in front of this screen I set my options to medium, yes to edges, no anti-aliasing and probably no shadows or no textures, that depends when I am at with the design, with these ease settings I can get things done and move around without hiccups.

 

Another tip, get use to not only navigating, try creating objects using push/pull and ultimately get on Subdivision objects, this stuff is meant for that tool exactly. Give it time.

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-28 at 3.01.47 PM.png

Edited by Luis M Ruiz
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11 minutes ago, Luis M Ruiz said:

Unfortunately and fortunately, Vectorworks allow you to set different scale for different layers. The 3d navigator to me feels ultra slow when creating shapes 1:1 scale, probably good for testing and learning volume creation and navigating at same time, I'd recommend this for beginners, but the majority of the projects I create are set to 1/4" scale or 1/8", yes the navigator moves mega fast, so in that case I go back to my 3dconnexion settings and move the speed slider to 25%.

 

It's a bit complicated because it's not just about the overall speed but the "miminum speed" you hit when you want to go very slowly. The range of possible speeds doesn't go down to zero so setting the speed slider to slower doesn't solve the problem. I only recently discovered that changing the design layer scale can help (whilst of course causing problems elsewhere). This is all discussed in this thread:

 

 

If there was some way of improving this it would make me very happy.

Edited by line-weight

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Once tried 1:1 but there were problems that made it unusable - unfortunately forgot what they exactly were.

 

I think I am 1:50 or maybe 1:100 with my Layers.

Navigation speed feels ok for me, I even set it higher to 25% now.

 

But often when I switch back to Enterprise after some time navigating with temporary flyover tool,

my model flips over, top to bottom.

 

And somehow, Enterprise feels much smoother and more natural in Modo.

Maybe because of the rotation origin ?

(in C4D feels a bit strange and rough too)

Edited by zoomer

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All my design layers are always 1:1. Never understood why you'd want them at anything other than 1:1 to be honest! (But that's a whole different discussion)

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I think the problem was when switching between Sheet Layers and Construction Layers.

where you always had to zoom in or out. And maybe some other things.

(Annotations and Dimensions on construction Layers ?)

 

I agree, I see absolutely no meaning in scaled construction Layers in 3D.

 

Will try again.

Edited by zoomer

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As mentioned on the other thread, it can be useful to preview line thicknesses/hatch fills etc whilst editing 2D linework that will usually be printed at a certain scale eg 1:50.

Setting to 1:1 removes this.

Again as mentioned on the other thread some kind of "preview at 1:xxx" option whilst in 2D mode would deal with this. I made a wishlist item.

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On 28/03/2017 at 7:53 PM, line-weight said:

The only time I have been using the "switch navigation" button up till now is to get back into helicopter mode when VW throws me into some other mode unexpectedly, which is annoying. Going to see if that bad habit has disappeared with these latest updates.

 

^ unfortunately this still seems to be happening. Often when I activate a saved view I seem to have exited Helicopter mode and been put in some other mode.

 

Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug? Or is there some way to set a certain mode as default?

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20 hours ago, JimW said:

In related news:
 

 

Hi

 

Should we "install plugs ins" once the driver is installed (from the 3Dconnexion preference pane).  What does that do?  Is it necessary?

 

 

Screen Shot 2017-03-30 at 12.26.41.png

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1 hour ago, Andrew Davies said:

Should we "install plugs ins" once the driver is installed (from the 3Dconnexion preference pane).  What does that do?  Is it necessary?


I don't believe so as far as Vectorworks is concerned, I tried it both with and without them and it behaved the same, but the support site recommends doing so. I'll add it to the instructions, it certainly doesn't seem to be detrimental. I'm fairly certain we included our version of a 3DConnexion plugin in 2017 sp3.

 

17 hours ago, line-weight said:

 

^ unfortunately this still seems to be happening. Often when I activate a saved view I seem to have exited Helicopter mode and been put in some other mode.

 

Am I doing something wrong or is this a bug? Or is there some way to set a certain mode as default?


Are your saved views Orthogonal or a Perspective? It does seem to default back to rotational view when in ortho. When doing raw 3D work I stay almost exclusively in perspective. 

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21 minutes ago, JimW said:

Are your saved views Orthogonal or a Perspective? It does seem to default back to rotational view when in ortho. When doing raw 3D work I stay almost exclusively in perspective. 

 

Yes, I do everything different than anybody else ;)

 

I normally use orthagonal mode Isometrics only.

(As it is more predictive when navigating than any perspective use,

I think the View Angle/Focal Length is not fixed (?) and everything gets highly distorted easily)

 

And want to use Flyover only

(to not get ill and motion sick)

 

 

And I think in the past, Perspective was defaulted to Flyover, and Isometrics switched back to

Walkthrough.

So in my case that meant to every time switch back to Flyover with "Menu" Button after

I changed my View Mode.

 

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I was having a similar discussion with some of my colleagues over here about modeling on isometric or perspective and we got to the conclusion that when modeling small objects isometrics is the way to go but for larger projects like architectural projects and sites perspective makes more sense. Now, if someone is looking over our shoulder and need some type of report on progress then perspective seems to be normal for none graphical clients. After all, life around us is always in perspective.  So, I guess we'll all choose what makes us comfortable as long as we get the job done right?

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It is funny,

because in all other 3D Apps - I AM ALWAYS in Perspective Mode and it works great.

 

Don't know exactly what the problem was or is for me in VW

(It is not Dolly or the Focal Length)

Maybe because I can't stand Perspective Mode for Top, Front and Side Views,

which VW insists that have to be 3D Views and use same 3D Render Mode - which I strongly disagree.

 

 

And current Walkthrough Only,

can't be fully converted to Flyover Mode, by just flipping the Axes as I did.

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1 hour ago, JimW said:

Are your saved views Orthogonal or a Perspective? It does seem to default back to rotational view when in ortho. When doing raw 3D work I stay almost exclusively in perspective. 

 

All saved "3d" views are in perspective rather than isometric and these are what I use most.

 

I do sometimes switch into "flat" orthogonal views (eg front or top) and into top/plan.

 

As far as I can tell it's usually when switching from these back to a perspective saved view that I get thrown into a navigation mode that is not what I want (ie. I want helicopter, always).

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22 minutes ago, zoomer said:

Maybe because I can't stand Perspective Mode for Top, Front and Side Views,

which VW insists that have to be 3D Views and use same 3D Render Mode - which I strongly disagree.

 

I think I agree with you here...pressing the "f" or "r" buttons on the 3dC device is a nice shortcut except it gives me a front view in perspective - pointless - so I end up doing a cmd-5 shortcut to top/plan to get rid of the perspective before pressing the "f" button.

 

The "f" button should put me straight into an orthogonal front view. Perhaps even a wireframe one too. Would be good if this could be user-configurable if not the default.

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That is why I always criticized the current implementation of the Perspective/Rendermode preselection

from the beginning. Currently there is 1 Setting only for 2 groups of views, Top Plan and the Rest.

 

If I could (2 groups), I would 99,9 % of time :

 

Top Plan (as it is) :

View Mode : Orthogonal (never ever Perspective)

Render Mode : Pseudo Section/Plan Mode

Enterprise : 2D only Pan+Zoom

 

Set Front, Back, Top, Bottom, Left, Right :

View Mode : Orthogonal

Render Mode : Wireframe

Enterprise : 2D only Pan+Zoom

 

Set Isometrics :

View Mode : Perspective

Render Mode : OpenGL

Enterprise : 3D Flyover

Edited by zoomer

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