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Andrew Davies

3DConnexion Mouse

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Hi

Got myself a 3DConnexion SpaceMouse Wireless the other day (http://www.3dconnexion.co.uk/products/spacemouse/spacemousewireless.html). Really nice - good build quality and I can really see the benefit of it.

But I am struggling to get it to work well with Vectorworks. I set it up as per these settings

http://kbase.vectorworks.net/questions/1173/3Dconnexion+SpaceNavigator+-+Recommended+Configuration+-+(Mac+OS+X)

But I am still struggling to make it feel natural.

I have though just opened a file in Sketchup and it felt immediately natural to use with the default settings - virtually no learning curve. Now I go back to using Vectorworks and I am all over the place!

Has anyone got any other tips for using it? Should I be in Flyover and walkthrough mode? Can I disable one of the modes so that it only ever uses one mode - which may simplify things?

Any advice much appreciated.

Andrew

Edited by Andrew Davies

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Walkthrough mode is the one I find the most useful, I normally use it for rendering and texturing work where I need to get inside the guts of the model. That particular hardware model isn't supported directly yet, but there should be a toggle button for which mode you're using and it should alert you which mode you have switched to in the info bar.

The center of rotation uses the Flyover center at the moment I believe, but the way that works will change in 2017 along with more integration with their 3DxWare software package.

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Hi,

I starte using one since a cpouple of days, and it it functions well.

I was just wondering if it is normal, that the SPACENAIVGATOR

works different in (normal)Perspktive or Orthogonal View

In Orthogonal View left mouse button just togles between flyover and 2D navigation.

so I must toggle all the time between rotating the model and moving/zooming the Model.

Not too comfortable but still helpfull and handy.

In Perspective View it toggles between 2D; Flyover, Walkthrough and Unconstrained Walktrough mode.

Unconstarined walktrough ist the most intutive way, but i would like to be able to specify the Center of rotation ....

Is there an setting that I oversee,

or a reason that I don't see,

or should I wait and see

what comes up in near future due to this oracle:

"... but the way that works will change in 2017 along with more integration with their 3DxWare software package."

lets see... :-)

Edited by Horst M.

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You have to be in a perspective projection for the Walkthrough mode in Vectorworks to function properly. This will not change in 2017. In orthogonal views it isn't possible to establish a first person location since there is no perspective distortion so it defaults to flyover.

Changes to the concept of Center of Rotation for flyover are coming in 2017 but I cannot provide details yet.

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Thanks Jim

Looking forward to 2017. Hadn't realised my model wasn't fully supported.

Hopefully it will behave a lot more as it does in Sketchup.

Andrew

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In orthogonal views it isn't possible to establish a first person location since there is no perspective distortion so it defaults to flyover.

I expected some conceptual catch here.

It would be totaly enough if the behaviour of the Spacanavigator Axes from "2D Naviagtion" and "Flyover" work how they do now in orthogonal perspectiv, just without the need of toggling between Modes.

anyway, thats just a minor inconvenience

The Spacenaviagtor is a really nice imporvemnt in the daily work.

Edited by Horst M.

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+1

Flyover Default everywhere.

Walkthrough optional with shortcut or switch by extra button click.

I never use Walkthrough - I always get ill from it :)

(called Motion Sickness ?)

I just Orbit + walk/zoom by scroll wheel.

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I'm also just starting with a SpaceNavigator, and am baffled by how easy and natural its use is in Sketchup and how odd and comparatively cumbersome it is in VectorWorks, even with the recommended settings. If the device is truly going to be supported by VW, why tie it to a tool such as Walkthrough or Flyover rather than giving it its own functionality that fully utilizes its capabilities?

The SN should just do its thing naturally, regardless of what other tool or command I'm using. As it is, in one mode I can't pan sideways or up and down, and in the other, I can't spin the model. Seems like the beauty of the device is that it provides enough axes that so you can fully navigate at all times. Works great – in Sketchup...

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even with the recommended settings

Oh, I thought I would use standard settings for my enterprise.

Looks like these special settings where kept somewhere from my old normal

Space Navigator.

If you use it,

in the kbase is a note about keeping the side button setting to switch

between flythrough and walkthrough mode, which I don't have.

Could you please look what function is assigned to your side button so

that I can map it to another key of my Enterprise too ?

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zoomer, the left button is just set to '3D Mouse Default'. Again, a shame that we have to click between these two tools (modes) in order to do fully navigate, given the SN provides enough axes to do it all at once. Rather defeats its seamlessness and ease of use...

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I realized I could activate my old SN to see the buttons.

Interesting, my left button was set to 2D Mouse "Click", right button "Right Click"

Mode switch works nevertheless (right Click not)

But that does not work on Enterprise.

Accidentally found the solution while searching a free key.

"Menu" key does the switch trick in VW, by default.

3 Options : flyover, walkthrough and 2D

Hope the other 3 of 6 axis will come in flyover mode with VW 2017

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I'm also just starting with a SpaceNavigator, and am baffled by how easy and natural its use is in Sketchup and how odd and comparatively cumbersome it is in VectorWorks, even with the recommended settings. If the device is truly going to be supported by VW, why tie it to a tool such as Walkthrough or Flyover rather than giving it its own functionality that fully utilizes its capabilities?

The SN should just do its thing naturally, regardless of what other tool or command I'm using. As it is, in one mode I can't pan sideways or up and down, and in the other, I can't spin the model. Seems like the beauty of the device is that it provides enough axes that so you can fully navigate at all times. Works great – in Sketchup...

I was about to buy one of these but as this thread goes on, I'm getting less and less interested.

At first, I was thinking the SpaceMouse Enterprise but then Jim mentioned that the bigger models had issues with Vectorworks. When I checked their site, sure enough vectorworks is not one of the supported programs they list.

So then I thought, I'll go to the opposite end of the spectrum and just get the basic space navigator but from what you are telling me, even this is just a hack in vectorworks. If I have to actually think about what I'm doing and have to switch modes just to move around, doesn't it defeat the purpose. Until these things are fully integrated and I am able to not think about navigation, I think I'm going to pass.

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At first, I was thinking the SpaceMouse Enterprise but then Jim mentioned that the bigger models had issues with Vectorworks. When I checked their site, sure enough vectorworks is not one of the supported programs they list.

Here's a quote from JimW in another thread about 3dConnexion support:

Support for 3DConnexions' range of hardware devices is indeed in the pipe and actively being developed now. Much of it specifically for the Enterprise model but apparently any work done for it will directly benefit any hardware that uses the 3DxWare software package's controls.

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If you like the way sketchup works (I dont, but live in Walkthrough mode and never switch to Flyover with the 3DSpaceNav) then you will very likely approve of the changes coming. Not only are we changing how view changes work with their line of products but Flyover itself is also getting a new mode that may please folk much more than the current modes do.

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At first, I was thinking the SpaceMouse Enterprise but then ... get the basic space navigator

Not sure if the Enterprise will make 100% sense on day for me.

Most of my Apps work well with the standard keyboard shortcuts.

Even for view navigation.

The meaning of the Enterprise is that you do not need your whole keyboard

in 80% anymore. You can let your left hand on the puck and using their

ALT, SHIFT, CMD, ... + Tool keys.

hmmh, or keyboard yes, Mouse no, because you need numeric input.

Or better Mouse+Enterprise+Numblock ?

I think than it needs alternative options for those 12 displayed Toolkeys

to map any Tools available.

So I still like my old plain SN.

The SN normally works in all Apps either perfectly or not at all as not supported.

The only exclusions are VW and C4D.

While C4D has one problem only, which is that you can't stop Trackball Rotation

(sideway rolling) which tilts the horizon.

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Thanks rDesign... That's good news. If they are working on Enterprise like Jim says, I'll wait until they add that support before I buy. In Canada, Enterprise is over $500. I don't have a problem spending that if everything works as it should but if its problematic like it currently is, it will just make me even more annoyed than I already am with VW. I'll save Jim from reading one of my rants by holding off buying. :)

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Beside if Enterprise makes sense or not,

once you bought it you can assign shortcuts to the buttons for all your Apps.

Maybe even write a macros if no shortcut available (?) to open your favorites

in Safari, add formulas in Numbers and those things ....

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Jim, are you able to spin your model with the SpaceNavigator while in Walkthrough? I haven't found a way to make that happen, and without that capability, I'll definitely have to switch between modes quite often...

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I'm also just starting with a SpaceNavigator, and am baffled by how easy and natural its use is in Sketchup and how odd and comparatively cumbersome it is in VectorWorks, even with the recommended settings. If the device is truly going to be supported by VW, why tie it to a tool such as Walkthrough or Flyover rather than giving it its own functionality that fully utilizes its capabilities?

I completely agree. Navigation shouldn't be linked to a tool.

The SN should just do its thing naturally, regardless of what other tool or command I'm using. As it is, in one mode I can't pan sideways or up and down, and in the other, I can't spin the model. Seems like the beauty of the device is that it provides enough axes that so you can fully navigate at all times. Works great – in Sketchup...

It works intuitively in the other 3d applications I've tried it in too (C4D, Rhino, Netfabb)....

Kevin

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Jim, are you able to spin your model with the SpaceNavigator while in Walkthrough? I haven't found a way to make that happen, and without that capability, I'll definitely have to switch between modes quite often...

This is a great question. I use the Flyover tool constantly but then I'm not modelling architecture. I'm modelling objects that you walk around not structures you walk within..... What type of objects are you working with Jim?

Kevin

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Jim, are you able to spin your model with the SpaceNavigator while in Walkthrough? I haven't found a way to make that happen, and without that capability, I'll definitely have to switch between modes quite often...

I generally just zoom out and then strafe around the model to look at the outside.

Sketchups implementation seems to be all flyover/zoom/pan and the default inverted controls threw me off since I've been working with my setup for so long. I mean, that's why they have the different mapping and inversion options I suppose, so everyone can tweak it to their liking. Can't make everyone happy with defaults.

A lot of why it feels so clunky in Vectorworks is due to our view modes needing a central focal point indicated by the user to act as the center of rotation. For now I can't go into more detail on whats going to happen but once 2017 is out and once I get my hands on the updated 3DNav changes (theyre currently not even in the beta builds for 2017 yet) I'll update all the docs on configuring it.

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Jim, are you able to spin your model with the SpaceNavigator while in Walkthrough? I haven't found a way to make that happen, and without that capability, I'll definitely have to switch between modes quite often...

Hmmh, not spin the model.

But Walkthrough Mode uses all 6 axis.

But rotate the bubble around Z-Axis means not spinning the model

but spinning your head or camera to look left or right.

(Beside that I really get ill in seconds)

That looks pretty logical to me.

So Walkthrough mode works by pushing yourself

(thats why I get ill)

while Flyover means pushing the building.

(beside that push currently does not work, just tilt and spin)

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OK, I think I see the point of having two modes: one where you 'steer' your own point of view in the model, the other one where you're stationary and are moving the model around. Working in architecture, both are useful at different times. Sometimes I'm working inside the building or want to walk clients through it (then I think of it as a space), sometimes I'm working on the outside or on just a detail element like a column connection (then I think of it as on object).

It seems that the latter, i.e. Flyover mode, is currently quite limited in VW using the SpaceNavigator – that is, there's only tilt and rotate, with no ability to move the model up, down, sideways, or zoom. Add those capabilities to the Flyover mode using the SN, and I'm good. Presumably you'll still need to use your mouse to set a custom center of rotation, when desired...

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Yes.

It is not that big of a problem as you can do all that pushing by

"zoom around mouse cursor".

I would be nicer to be able to do all with the 3DC SN thiough.

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...one more observation: it doesn't look like VW will recognize input from more than one SN axis at a time, e.g. in Walkthrough, I can't move to the side and rotate my direction of view simultaneously – this makes for a very jerky experience, and might be part of the reason why zoomer gets woozy while using this mode (me too, a little). I checked Sketchup, and it's able to respond to multi-axial input smoothly and predictably, and I think that's in part why if feels so much more natural and easy.

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