Line Render Not Working Right

[Bruce Kieffer]

I just wasted an hour trying to figure out why I can't get my lines to render with Hidden Line rendering, and I've come to the conclusion that this is a bug. If you have a suggestion to make the lines render, then please offer it. If I change the perspective, some of the previously invisible lines render, and then others that did render now don't. Vectorworks can be SO frustrating at times. I just want it to work for me instead of constantly being a fight.

I reluctantly added an image to this post BECAUSE IT'S SO DIFFICULT TO DO THAT!!! I desperately wish we have a new forum that lets me just drag in an image to post. WHEN?

Missing Lines

[zoomer]

Do you have any crease angle set to >89° ?

Or will it render the Lines at a better resolution ?

[Bruce Kieffer]

I'm not rendering in Open GL, so I don't think Crease angle changes anything. Render resolution is 300 dpi on the sheet layer. This happens both in the design layer and viewport. I attached a link to my VW file.

Some Darn Lines Don't Render in Hidden Line VW File

[Kevin McAllister]

Hi Bruce,

Is this a sheet layer viewport rendered in OpenGL with edges turned on? If it is the solution is to add a crop that is bigger than your object (ie. leaves a gutter around it).

This is a known issue that appeared in VW2015. I have sent many examples of it to JimW. VW automatically generates a behind the scenes "crop" for OpenGL viewports but crops too close to the objects so you lose some edges. I am assuming it will be fixed eventually but sometimes you never know....

Kevin

[Kevin McAllister]

We were both posting at the same time. Not an OpenGL problem.

I think its a bug that should be submitted. In the interim the solution is to make your column components into a solid addition. You can still edit them that way and it will render properly.

Kevin

[zoomer]

I'm not rendering in Open GL, so I don't think Crease angle changes anything. Render resolution is 300 dpi on the sheet layer. This happens both in the design layer and viewport. I attached a link to my VW file.

Some Darn Lines Don't Render in Hidden Line VW File

It is a Geometry problem (at least for VW)

If you select all your Extrude Objects and combine them by a "Add Solids"

Everything looks fine.

I think it would even look fine if you create your geometry by adding Extrudes

top on top for each "diameter" change of that column.

For example those smaller decorative extensions or ribons, I would create these

either by an extrudes rectangle with a hole, or all 2D geometry of your 4 Extrudes

extruded in one Extrude.

(If you really need the empty volume inside for construction usage)

[Bruce Kieffer]

Add solids fixes the missing corners, but then my miters are gone. All I can say in frustration is there's no reason on planet earth that something as simple as this does not work. I continued to trouble shoot instead of completing my work.

[Kevin McAllister]

Bruce,

I am positive it is a bug with extrudes. There are two ways I can see to retain your mitres and have it render correctly -

1) convert your existing molding geometry to generic solids. Not ideal but it works.

2) draw two squares and clip one from the other. Extrude the resulting geometry to create a square "ring" for your moldings. To get back your mitres use the Split Tool in its second mode to cut across the moldings from corner to corner. You will again end up with 4 pieces for each level of molding but instead of being extrudes they will be solid sections which seem to render correctly. Obviously not idea either.

Hopefully JimW will see this thread on Monday and have a better solution.

Kevin

[bcd]

Interestingly, if you rotate the troublesome 'rings' by 180º the problem resolves itself.

I suspect some kind of Z-fighting issue with other edges of other objects... ?

[Bruce Kieffer]

I saw that too about rotating. It is weird. I rebuilt the second from the top trim band, and now all the lines render correctly. There's still no reason that I see why this should not work without all the trouble shooting I had to do. Such a simple object, yet so much wasted time trying to figure out why Vectorworks won't do what it's supposed to.

[AlanW]

Bruce,

This is strange, if you nudge the offending piece a bit the edge shows.

mmmmm.

[Bruce Kieffer]

I saw that too, but when they touch the corner line disappears. Jim (Wilson) can you look at my file please?

[Bruce Kieffer]

Investigating further I see this strangeness. I isolated the 4 piece top band by placing it in a separate class, and then I deleted the right rear piece. So where is the mitered corner edge of the right front piece?

[zoomer]

I first thought this is a little hick up when VW sees the first front element that

has an edge, after that the second element behind that has also an edge but

this should be deactivated/hidden behind the first elements edge.

And VW showing non of these at the end.

Your example looks like it doesn't even need a second touching element.

It may just not show edges from elements if the angle between faces is more

than 90° ?

[Kevin McAllister]

I think its a bug with the rendering of mirrored extrudes. Its likely related to the flipped normal discussion going on in another thread.

Bruce, if you don't mirror extrudes I suspect you won't have this problem again. I think if you mirror the 2d geometry before extruding it behaves ok.

Kevin

PS. Here's a fixed version of your file.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Kevin McAllister

[PVA - Admin]

I suspect it is related to the mirroring, I will forward this along to the tech team to confirm and submit.

[zoomer]

BTW

I never mirror anything.

I always copy-rotate and move back in position.

I never had any CAD, or got any mirrored data from any CAD,

where mirroring would not have had led to problems at any time later.

At least when exchanging between Apps.

[Kevin McAllister]

I suspect it is related to the mirroring, I will forward this along to the tech team to confirm and submit.

Thanks Jim!!

BTW

I never mirror anything.

I always copy-rotate and move back in position.

I never had any CAD, or got any mirrored data from any CAD,

where mirroring would not have had led to problems at any time later.

At least when exchanging between Apps.

Yes, I think this is good workflow, especially copy-rotate. In the case of Bruce's example, its easy to turn the duplicate option of the rotate tool on and do the copy-rotate in one operation.

KM

[PVA - Admin]

Techs were able to separate the issue from mirroring. Mirroring does seem to increase the likelihood of the issue occurring but isnt required to cause it. Bug has been submitted, thank you.

[zoomer]

Thank You !

[Bruce Kieffer]

I can't mirror!!! Say it aint so. I mirror objects all the time. I can't be expect to change my workflow to work around a bug.

[Bas Vellekoop]

The mirroring messes up allot of things, even the position of normals when you export to c4d.

Gave me allot of headaches and extra work

[Bruce Kieffer]

Then I suggest that Nemetschek removes the mirror tool, or stop everything and make it work right.

[J Lucas]

+1

There are many things like this that need to be fixed but are ignored release after release.

[Kevin McAllister]

I think having an awareness that mirroring can cause issues is a first step. At least then you know what to look for when you have trouble. Sending any mirror issues you find to tech support is essential to getting the bugs quashed. Different workflows will often reveal bugs that didn't show up in testing.

Bruce, in terms of workflow you can certainly use mirror. When you do, try to mirror the 2d shapes and then extrude if at all possible. Mirror 2d is more robust in my experience. I would also explore the copy-rotate option mentioned above.

Kevin