Which 3D Tool for which job..?

[Mattheng]

I have been looking at the 3D modelling thread and admiring a lot of the work that has gone into some of the creations but it really got me thinking about efficient 3D modelling.

Every time I start a 3D model I don't know where to start.

Do I use Extrudes and then deform them? Do I use NURBS instead and all the associated tools or now do I use the new thing Subdivisions...?

Why do we have all these various 3D objects and what are they all best suited for?

This is really becoming a problem as I was struggling before subdivisions (e.g. what exactly is a Mesh if it isn't just a group of 3D Polys, in which case how is it any different from a group of 3D polys....)

I appreciate that we all have our favourite ways of working so I am not talking about what we have ended up using.

I am much more interested in what the guys at VW think they SHOULD be used for, why they were stuck in the program in the first place and, perhaps most intriguingly, why they did not get rid of the older methods when they introduced new ones (e.g. why keep NURBS modelling when you have subdivisions)?

Jim?

Matt

[PVA - Admin]

The main point of keeping the older tools, is that they all have strengths and weaknesses, and it very much depends on what your end goal is when choosing which to use, as well as what type of shape youre making.

As to Meshs and 3D polygons, meshes are effectively just groups of 3D polygons. The main difference is that Mesh objects have automatic smoothing applied to them which you can control, so you don't have to work with faceted objects after importing a mesh, as you get when you import SketchUp or other 3D interchange formats.

Subdivision needs a lot more fleshing out before I would call it a complete replacement for NURBS, but even if it got to that point, having direct control over geometry with things like Loft and Shell will probably always be useful, its more about having a large array of tools with varying capabilities, some of them overlapping, and giving you the choice of which of them to use.

I feel our issue is less with how many tools we have with overlapping functions than it is with our lack of educational materials that explain how these tools can be used on their own or in combination with one another, something I intend to remedy with a combination of new material from us as well as making sure users are aware of the excellent and more advanced guides like this on on subdivisions made by our third party training partners.

[barkest]

The overwhelming majority of my 3D stuff started life as 2D. Get good with the 2D tools especially the polyline tool (an absolute must) and you can conquer a lot of 3D objects.

[Art V]

For now it really depends on whether you need surfaces or solids for the specific object(s).

Regarding NURBS vs subdivision, NURBS has its uses and subdvision may be way more cumbersome in some areas than NURBS depending on how many subdivisions there are in a surface.

Subdivision implementation is just too coarse right now for some applications.

I agree with Jim that it would be really helpful to have better educational materials on how these tools can be used and what the differences between these tools are in some areas. Especially if you are not familiar with other dedicated 3D software like FormZ, Cinema4D etc.

[Mattheng]

I feel our issue is less with how many tools we have with overlapping functions than it is with our lack of educational materials that explain how these tools can be used on their own or in combination with one another, something I intend to remedy with a combination of new material from us .....

Exactly. Any clues as to when we will see this?

[PVA - Admin]

Starting around September, but then increasingly more often as I (wearing my Training Content Manager hat, I have many official and unofficial titles these days) am allocated more resources.

[rDesign]

On 5/26/2016 at 6:06 AM, JimW said:

I feel our issue is less with how many tools we have with overlapping functions than it is with our lack of educational materials that explain how these tools can be used on their own or in combination with one another, something I intend to remedy with a combination of new material from us as well as making sure users are aware of the excellent and more advanced guides like this on on subdivisions made by our third party training partners.

 

On 5/26/2016 at 8:24 AM, Mattheng said:

Exactly. Any clues as to when we will see this?

 

On 5/26/2016 at 8:29 AM, JimW said:

Starting around September, but then increasingly more often as I (wearing my Training Content Manager hat, I have many official and unofficial titles these days) am allocated more resources.

 

Any status updates on the release of new training materials mentioned above? Other than the excellent 'Rendering for Success' series, I haven't seen much new training material on the VSS portal either. Perhaps I just missed them. Thanks.

Edited April 7, 2017 by rDesign

[PVA - Admin]

There is a big and very fantastic change coming that has delayed production, but it will be worth it. Details as soon as I can.

 

Unrelated to that, we do want to increase video production speed but the same resources needed for them are also needed elsewhere.

[Kevin McAllister]

4 hours ago, JimW said:

There is a big and very fantastic change coming that has delayed production, but it will be worth it. Details as soon as I can.

 

Ha this is the vaguest tease ever!  The original thread is about learning materials and documentation but this tease feels like its about something software related that created a reason to delay those...... well played JimW!

 

Kevin

[barkest]

12 hours ago, JimW said:

here is a big and very fantastic change coming that has delayed production, but it will be worth it. Details as soon as I can.

 

Hi Jim

 

Quick multi-choice quiz

 

1. Was the change due to:

 

a) Commercial reasons (the market pushed you this way)

b) An idea from your side

c) The community

 

I hope its answer c)

 

Then part two:

 

2. Is the change

 

a) Brand new for VW

b) A complete change of direction for an existing tool/process

c) A build onto an existing tool/process

 

For me I hope its not answer a)

 

Not sure what others think but I hope you can answer without giving anything away 

 

thanks

 

Edited April 10, 2017 by barkest

[PVA - Admin]

1) C and a bit of B

2) A and B

 

It is NOT related specifically to this topic, but is more than worth the time spent on it. Good news all around.

[barkest]

Thanks Jim

 

really pleased its kind of driven by the community 

Edited April 10, 2017 by barkest

[EAlexander]

My guess is multi-view viewports.....but I have no insider info, just speculating.

 

e.

[barkest]

I would not think it is a coincidence its in the 3D tool thread. So imho its Sub-D addition and maybe even some kind of UV mapping but that is a huge huge long shot

[Bas Vellekoop]

@JimW More! More! More!

[Kevin McAllister]

I hope its the modern equivalent to the "3D Power Pack" of tools that were added years ago 

 

(The Subdivision tool fills a great niche but it isn't designed for precision work. Its difficult to make objects that meets specific dimensional tolerances.... its a video game / animation modelling tool adapted to a CAD program to allow the creation of organic mesh shapes.)

 

Kevin

 

 

[Bas Vellekoop]

47 minutes ago, Kevin McAllister said:

I hope its the modern equivalent to the "3D Power Pack" of tools that were added years ago 

 

(The Subdivision tool fills a great niche but it isn't designed for precision work. Its difficult to make objects that meets specific dimensional tolerances.... its a video game / animation modelling tool adapted to a CAD program to allow the creation of organic mesh shapes.)

 

Kevin

 

 

+100

 

Agree completely!

I use the 3d power pack almost at a daily basis.

Subdivision tool is very cool, but not for precision work. I see it more as a tool for sketching.

 

[Kevin McAllister]

On 2017-04-09 at 1:10 PM, JimW said:

There is a big and very fantastic change coming that has delayed production, but it will be worth it. Details as soon as I can.

 

Another post made me think its related to this - 

I'm surprised there haven't been any teases yet. We're actually going to learn about things later later than last year because the Design Summit has moved to the Fall.

 

KM

 

 

 

[AlanW]

Back to the title of the post I try to understand as many of the tools available to me so that when I am faced with a problem I have many choices ant tools that I can use efficiently. All solve a problem and it's a matter of knowing their uses no limits.