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domer1322

2D symbol use in "extrude along path"

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I've always been frustrated by this simple problem. I use a certain molding profile to make a wall base or crown molding, then make a 3D object using "extrude along path". However, if I change the 2D polygon later, then I have to go back and change every single "extrude along path" object (crown molding or wall base). IF I had been able to use a 2D symbol when making the "extrude along path", then I could change the symbol at a later time and all the crown molding in the building would change at the same time. Right now, VW does not allow you to use a 2D symbol for an extrude profile.

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Hi, If you use Marionette you can do this, the trick is when you create a symbol you convert to a group then you can change the different symbols in and out.

In the test file there are a few symbols in the resource browser the play with.

You will see an OIP when you click on the crown moulding and gives you an option to change the symbol name. Change name and hit enter.

To change the path right click on the moulding and select change control geometry. You can draw another line and delete the other one.

Remember that EAP goes down the middle of the objects so you need to offset the path.

Short video explaining how it all works available at;

If you need help let me know.

HTH

Edited by Alan Woodwell

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^^ +1

This has been a long standing wish.

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Awesome!

Really - bases and moldings should be built into walls - but this is great work.

I was playing around with the file, and the molding jumps around in space when you change the symbol.

Am I doing something wrong?

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Tom,

If you edit while in Top/Plan, it shouldn't jump around.

This is an issue with using converting to NURBS in Marionette and I thought we had it resolved, but it seems we're still missing something. I might try adding some more varied logic and see if any of it makes it a bit cleaner.

Edited by MarissaF

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Hi,

Attached is a new file adjusted so the Profile now extrudes down the side of the profile and not the centre.

I would draw your path clockwise and have you profile facing the right and bottom left on the centre in the Symbol

All still works the way that it is shown in the video.

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This is an interesting discussion.

+1 to the original wish. VW also needs better controls when choosing the profile origin. Centring the profile is such an outdated approach.

Alan, I have mixed results with your script. The molding jumped around in height as I changed symbols and then suddenly the whole path relocated itself to one side. Not sure why.

Another wish list item - the original Path Extrude (EAP) node included with Marionette should have an option to define the origin of the profile, as well as options to flip the direction of the path. These are the two most common things that need to be done to a EAP when you create it manually.

Kevin

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Kevin,

The issue you're finding with Alan's example is due to changing your profile in a 3D view (I assume)

If you change in Top/Plan, the path shouldn't bounce around.

This is due to the Convert to NURBS command in Marionette, we're working on identifying the best fix, because apparently we didn't fix it the way we fix most other "object jumping" issues.

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Thanks Marissa. Sounds like the VW workaround is in play behind the scenes...

Ultimately, this needs to be sorted in the big picture in a more permanent (ie. non Marionette) way. I worry that Marionette is going to be used as a "get out of jail" card for a lot of unfulfilled wishes. "You can easily build that yourself."

Kevin

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Nah, she hits the fires with a hose, I work to make sure future houses are fireproof.

This will be seen more and more as time goes on, but we (and more employees that you will start seeing on the forums) will be multi-prong attacking things, getting feature requests properly sorted and filed at the same time as we try to provide faster, but effective Vectorworkarounds.

Edit: But honestly, that was a legitimate concern, I'm just already all over that problem so that it does not crop up ;)

Edited by JimW

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Nah, she hits the fires with a hose, I work to make sure future houses are fireproof.

Great analogy. When I made my VW workaround comment I was referring to this -

apparently we didn't fix it the way we fix most other "object jumping" issues.

Essentially a programming workaround that it bitting back now.... :)

This will be seen more and more as time goes on, but we (and more employees that you will start seeing on the forums) will be multi-prong attacking things, getting feature requests properly sorted and filed at the same time as we try to provide faster, but effective Vectorworkarounds.

Edit: But honestly, that was a legitimate concern, I'm just already all over that problem so that it does not crop up ;)

I know that you, Marissa and others have it well in hand. Your efforts do not go un-noticed.

Kevin

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thanks for the input .... Alan, your marionette script is cool, but it doesn't really solve my initial wish list request. That is, i want to be able to change all the crown moldings in a house at the same time. With your solution, I would have to go to each room and change each marionette object separately.

Also ... someone suggested adding this feature to a wall style. I don't think this would be a good idea, because the walls are already complicated, and adding this would cause issues in the way the walls are joined, or using one wall that goes through several rooms. The crown might be in one room, but not in the next room. This would cause the same problem we already have where one continuous wall might have a different color in one room than the next. It is annoying to have to use several individual walls just to represent different colors in different rooms. Also .... what if I want to use the same feature to put in a picture rail or chair rail. Now the "wall" control would have to include a height parameter for the extruded object. Too complex !

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Hi,

I think I can change it so you can use the same object (Marionette) as a symbol that you could just add to all the rooms and change the one symbol and it would change all.

Wont be able to look at this for 5 weeks as will be travelling with no computer, just Ipad. Sob Sob.

But love the suggestions as this is what Marionette is all about, sure the main program has lots but cant solve everyone's issues so this is where Marionette comes into it's own.

Any issues you may need to automate or speed up post the request and we will look at trying to solve this.

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On 5/19/2016 at 2:00 AM, Marissa Farrell said:

Tom,

If you edit while in Top/Plan, it shouldn't jump around.

This is an issue with using converting to NURBS in Marionette and I thought we had it resolved, but it seems we're still missing something. I might try adding some more varied logic and see if any of it makes it a bit cleaner.

Hey @Marissa Farrell, I'm trying to repurpose Alan's script but am experiencing behavioural issues that might relate to the 'jumps around' phenomenon, despite now using 2017 SP4.

 

I'm using Alan's script to enable multiple straight extrusions that all use the one symbol as the profile, so that when I alter (not exchange) the symbol, all extrusions will receive the altered profile.

 

The symptoms I'm getting are: 

  • The position of the extrusion path 'Control Geometry' doesn't reflect the placement/position of the resultant Marionette part either. 
  • If I move the resultant Marionette part - no matter whether in an 3D view or a 2D/elevation view and no matter whether with the mouse or using 2D Align or 3D Align commands - it jumps to a completely unrelated location. See attached video for this symptom. 
  • EDIT: The Marionette part also changes location when I change the Symbol profile, but it doesn't move again if I change it a second time. The 'control geometry' however stays where the Marionette part was before I change the profile the first time. 

Are you able to confirm if the 'jumpy' geometry/Nurbs received any amendments since the aforementioned post? Or what could or will be done to overcome this? (I just can't position the object). 

 

Shifty_Marionette_Object.mov

Edited by Jeremy Best
Clarification added.

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This is a semi-known issue. We had it fixed for a while, and then it broke again. I can confirm I've been seeing it here as well.

I can say that using 2018 can help, if not completely solve, this issue though I see you're still using 2017. In 2018, we have a preference when you convert a wrapper to an object where you can suppress resetting on move (basically in 2017 and 2018 without that option checked, the object gets regenerated every time you move it in the document. In 2018, you can set the object to only redraw when you change a parameter in the OIP)

 

The only way in 2017 to handle this when you have a buggy object is to move the object only in Top/Plan. What's happening is that the EAP object is using a coordinate space that doesn't align with your source geometry. I do believe that you can set your 3d position and then just nudge the object when you're in Top/Plan to get both objects using the same coordinate space. I may be wrong, but worth a try. (Just try to ignore that the object looks shifted in 3D, that 3D part is the thing that should move when you nudge in Top/Plan)

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We've been waiting for SP1 of Vectorworks 2018 but I'll be sure to use that when it's available/ready for our market. 

 

Thanks for your help, Marissa! 

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Paolo has a moulding tool that works great and allows you too keep and swap out libraries of moulding profiles.  You can find it on the 3rd party plugins part of this forum.  I've been using it for a while and it is pretty good.  

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Hi @Bas Vellekoop, I've just re-tested Allan's original v2017 file in Vectorworks 2020 SP1 and the issue seems to have been fixed.

 

I found:

  1. The marionette object didn't jump to a different location when moving it in orthogonal 3D view (the way I did in my 'Shifty Marionette' video posted above). 
  2. The profile's position relative to the path also remained as it was, after specifying my own symbol/profile in the OIP - which I believe is due to the customised code Allan put in the 'Path Extrude' node. 
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