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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

I've seen quite a few different interface elements being considered, I am NOT sure which ones will be included for initial release, but light control does seem to be possible. I have seen a few demos where there was an angle control similar to how you'd move a heliodon as well as color temp settings. But the lighting is always controlled by the "artificial" environment of the viewer, sort of like Ambient Lighting.

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Below you will find a sample of some of the WebView exports (added to original post as well):

Philly: http://tinyurl.com/zv4a6rt

Museum: http://tinyurl.com/hoh7lrc

House: http://tinyurl.com/zjja4vo

These are some of the early tests for viewing a Vectorworks model entirely within a browser. For the Philly model, on the bottom right, click the eyeball icon and switch it to First Person mode, then the mouse and arrow keys (The controls change if you're viewing on a mobile browser or with a device that supports VR) will let you navigate around and see the early version of the solid collision system in action, especially when you go up the Philly model's stairs. I think Museum and House only work in non-first person mode.

This test version does not include any compression yet (the final version will) so you may need to wait for the model to load within the page a few moments.

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=15335&filename=Screen%20Shot%202016-05-16%20at%2011.59.37%20AM.png

On my phone Windows 640Xl:

First I tried to open the house, I got a blank page with the four icons. Pushing these icons didn't do anything.

I went back to try the Philly. This made my phone completely reboot :(

I don't know if phones are a thing you want to use this for, but it would be great addition I think.

Hope this will become a possibility.

And just asking: what is the big difference between these files/viewer and Nomad and are these two things become on integrated application or internet viewer?

In the past I used Nomad a (little) bit, it seems that the UI / layout is different then this one. Is that correct and is that intentional? Would it not be more clear if that is the samen in look and feel?

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

I've only tested it on Android and iOS, I doubt much testing is done with Windows phones, I don't think anyone in the office has one:

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=15336&filename=Screenshot_2016-05-16-16-34-55.png

The blank page will sit for awhile before the model loads, this version doesnt have a progress bar but apparently the final one likely will to give you an idea of the load time.

This is a similar tech to Nomad but with a different control skin on it. This is an extremely early alpha of the utility so the UI will change dramatically I am sure. Likely they will functionally merge at some point but I do not know when. The main point of this is to send to people who DON'T have Nomad and don't want to install an app to view something, kind of like the Viewer without having to install.

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Tried on the computer and that work good.

Wasn't even able to fall out of the front 'door' :)

I agree with Zoomer, for presentation purposes it needs a bit more.

Hidden line would be a good extra.

I`m wondering what's beter: more realistic, but probably to heavy to render, so it becomes a bit 'ugly'

Or more 'cartoon/CAD'-like, you get the feeling of the space or objects but you don't have the client saying: "hmmm I don't like beige, or "is that really going to look like that?"

(and I was hitting the space bar to jump over a chair and it didn't work.. :(;) )

Edited by Bas Vellekoop
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Yesssssss spacebar to jump, right? They mocked me in the meetings but I know what the people want!

This is basically the presentation turned as low as possible for the interaction testing, it tracks where the floor is and wont let you step inside walls and other strange things like you can currently do in Nomad, and is aware of changing floor heights like ramps and stairs.

Eventually, anything the VGM can do (which is currently OpenGL basically) in Vectorworks, this viewer will be able to do, but currently that rules out Hidden Line. More visualization options will come, likely with control over saved views, lighting shadows, etc.

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I've only tested it on Android and iOS, I doubt much testing is done with Windows phones, I don't think anyone in the office has one:

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=15336&filename=Screenshot_2016-05-16-16-34-55.png

The blank page will sit for awhile before the model loads, this version doesnt have a progress bar but apparently the final one likely will to give you an idea of the load time.

This is a similar tech to Nomad but with a different control skin on it. This is an extremely early alpha of the utility so the UI will change dramatically I am sure. Likely they will functionally merge at some point but I do not know when. The main point of this is to send to people who DON'T have Nomad and don't want to install an app to view something, kind of like the Viewer without having to install.

Windows phone doesn't do anything, site is open for 15min now but still no model, only the icons.

Because the goal of the viewer and app are almost the same I hope they will get the same UI and controls.

Is it possible to annotad or leave suggestions in the viewer? Like: the is shouldn't be a stone wall but wood?"

Probably wanted as well, but just asking :)

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

I would expect something like that eventually, more than likely Nomad and this will eventually become the same thing, they use the VGM as their base and maintaining them separately seems like an inefficient use of resources. The same engineering team here manages them both currently and that particular team is VERY much about efficiency and agility in development.

Once the keynote from the Summit goes live (not sure when it will, that video was given to the marketing video editing team here) you will get to see Donne Martin, our Cloud and Mobile Technologies Manager in all of his enthusiastic glory and you'll see what I mean. And yes, he IS like that all the time ;)

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On my iPad (iOS 9), initially I thought that the 'First person' mode with the 4 icons did not work, but I moved myself close to the ground with the 'Orbit' mode and then switched back to the First Person mode and then the 4 icons worked fine. Maybe this is what is going on with those users having problems on Windows phones.

I'm really looking forward to using this for presenting to clients, especially once we can add Saved Views.

Keep up the good work!

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Eventually, anything the VGM can do (which is currently OpenGL basically) in Vectorworks, this viewer will be able to do, but currently that rules out Hidden Line. More visualization options will come, likely with control over saved views, lighting shadows, etc.

If it will ever get the quality of VW 2016's OpenGL

(1. Ambient+1 direct Light; 2. Shadows; 3. Hidden Lines (a bit finer))

I would be more than pleased. I would not need more.

On my iPad (iOS 9), initially I thought that the 'First person' mode with the 4 icons did not work, but I moved myself close to the ground with the 'Orbit' mode and then switched back to the First Person mode and then the 4 icons worked fine.

Thought it would not work too so I read the help.

Like Google street view, you have to drag the human figure, by dragging from

these 4 arrow plane to the drawing, to set your start point first.

Then it will work.

And Orbit is fast without any lag on my iPad.

(Air 2 ?)

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While the walkaround function with solid object detection is a good development, let's not forget that this has been possible in Sketchup for several years now, an application that is either free or substantially less expensive than VW.

So really a lot of this is just VW playing catchup, but a bit late. And there remain other basic things that are possible in Sketchup, that aren't in VW, or are possible but clunkily implemented.

(Jim W I don't want to seem negative, and greatly appreciate the efforts you are taking to share and discuss developments with us. Just, when I see the amount of money it costs me to update to the latest VW, and we are still talking about introducing features that have long been available in Sketchup, it grates a little. I'm aware of course that the pricing structure is not determined by you.)

Edited by col37400
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While the walkaround function with solid object detection is a good development, let's not forget that this has been possible in Sketchup for several years now, an application that is either free or substantially less expensive than VW.

I have used SketchUp for years, and as far as I know, it does not come with anything remotely like Vw's Web View with walk-around collision detection.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
While the walkaround function with solid object detection is a good development, let's not forget that this has been possible in Sketchup for several years now, an application that is either free or substantially less expensive than VW.

So really a lot of this is just VW playing catchup, but a bit late. And there remain other basic things that are possible in Sketchup, that aren't in VW, or are possible but clunkily implemented.

(Jim W I don't want to seem negative, and greatly appreciate the efforts you are taking to share and discuss developments with us. Just, when I see the amount of money it costs me to update to the latest VW, and we are still talking about introducing features that have long been available in Sketchup, it grates a little. I'm aware of course that the pricing structure is not determined by you.)

In any case, if an opponent is ahead of you, there is no option but to catch up to them first if you eventually plan to get ahead of them.

However in this case, this topic is regarding the export of a web view so that anyone can view it on any web-capable device, not just ones that can install sketchup. You are comparing a feature sketchup has within it's application to an export/presentation object generated FROM a Vectorworks model. The comparison your are drawing is indirect.

However, to the pricing issue:

SketchUp in particular is extremely deficient in a number of areas compared to Vectorworks as well. There are an array of plugins that attempt to supplement this functionality, but even relatively standard things like creating door and window schedules or creating a database of plants take significantly longer there. To say nothing of it's significant lack of 2D plan capabilities that is still crucial to a huge number of users. Then we get to rendering, where it basically includes OpenGL but then all advanced render options either require export or a separate plugin.

Vectorworks is an extremely broad set of tools designed to give you a huge array of ways to create things and solve problems, and that tool set is only going to keep increasing. There will always be more focused or more expensive packages that can do parts of what we do better than we can do them, thats the price of maintaining diversity and a jack-of-all-trades mindset.

SketchUp is certainly another viable option. If it meets your needs and if it gives you a superior value for your money, then I fully encourage you to embrace it. I am not here to try and encourage you to spend money on something you do not feel proves it's worth to you, I am here to try and help you get the most out of what we offer and more recently, to share in our future development so that you can make more informed decisions about agreeing to multi-year contracts with us.

If as I suspect the more underlying issue is a concern over the price of the software, there I can not help you. Vectorworks is certainly no insignificant amount of money, but in many cases it still costs users less than even the hardware they run it on and earns its keep dozens or hundreds of times over.

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While the walkaround function with solid object detection is a good development, let's not forget that this has been possible in Sketchup for several years now, an application that is either free or substantially less expensive than VW.

So really a lot of this is just VW playing catchup, but a bit late. And there remain other basic things that are possible in Sketchup, that aren't in VW, or are possible but clunkily implemented.

(Jim W I don't want to seem negative, and greatly appreciate the efforts you are taking to share and discuss developments with us. Just, when I see the amount of money it costs me to update to the latest VW, and we are still talking about introducing features that have long been available in Sketchup, it grates a little. I'm aware of course that the pricing structure is not determined by you.)

In any case, if an opponent is ahead of you, there is no option but to catch up to them first if you eventually plan to get ahead of them.

However in this case, this topic is regarding the export of a web view so that anyone can view it on any web-capable device, not just ones that can install sketchup. You are comparing a feature sketchup has within it's application to an export/presentation object generated FROM a Vectorworks model. The comparison your are drawing is indirect.

However, to the pricing issue:

SketchUp in particular is extremely deficient in a number of areas compared to Vectorworks as well. There are an array of plugins that attempt to supplement this functionality, but even relatively standard things like creating door and window schedules or creating a database of plants take significantly longer there. To say nothing of it's significant lack of 2D plan capabilities that is still crucial to a huge number of users. Then we get to rendering, where it basically includes OpenGL but then all advanced render options either require export or a separate plugin.

Vectorworks is an extremely broad set of tools designed to give you a huge array of ways to create things and solve problems, and that tool set is only going to keep increasing. There will always be more focused or more expensive packages that can do parts of what we do better than we can do them, thats the price of maintaining diversity and a jack-of-all-trades mindset.

SketchUp is certainly another viable option. If it meets your needs and if it gives you a superior value for your money, then I fully encourage you to embrace it. I am not here to try and encourage you to spend money on something you do not feel proves it's worth to you, I am here to try and help you get the most out of what we offer and more recently, to share in our future development so that you can make more informed decisions about agreeing to multi-year contracts with us.

If as I suspect the more underlying issue is a concern over the price of the software, there I can not help you. Vectorworks is certainly no insignificant amount of money, but in many cases it still costs users less than even the hardware they run it on and earns its keep dozens or hundreds of times over.

Sure. Sketchup can't compete for 2D work, I agree. But I'm in the position, I think, of many who want to start to work more in 3D. And I think VW wants us to do that.

It's just a bit frustrating because, instead of doing my 2D in VW and then 3D in Sketchup I want to bring it all into VW and make the whole process more productive. Yes, the price is worth it if it makes me more productive. I'm really trying (honest) to transition towards doing what I've previously done in Sketchup, in VW, and I'm making headway but constantly meeting quite basic things that make it hard work.

Going by the marketing and launch videos and so on, I think VW wants us to be working smoothly and freely in 3D ... does VW know that we aren't though?

It's inevitable that any of us moving our 3D workflow from Sketchup...which we might think of as a kind of benchmark standard given that it's sort-of free software...into VW are going to feel (whether rationally or not) a bit short-changed when, after investing a certain amount of time getting our heads round how to do this, we find certain things missing that we might think would be taken for granted.

I know that the stuff above is specifically related to an export of a web view ... but the object-collision thing and easy walkaround is something that's missing from basic VW.

In sketchup it's very easy to look at stuff from "inside" - you can drop a little red cross where you want to stand, and you are transported there, with a realistic eye height already set and you can look around and walk around straight away.

In VW, to do the same seems to have to involve going to a menu, selecting set 3d view, possibly setting a working plane to make sure you are going to stand where you expect, selecting the stand point, selecting the target point, and manually inputting an eye level. And then you are ready to walk around but without the collision detection stuff and without automatically changing level as you go down steps and so on.

Just an example of simple stuff that could be made so much easier than it is.

The price, fundamentally, is not the issue as such. If I could choose between (a) VW, with certain basic things in the 3D environment improved to "at least as good as sketchup", at the current price, and (b) VW as it currently is, at the price of sketchup, I'd choose (a). Because of all the other stuff VW has, and because it make sense for things to be as integrated as possible. And because I already have 10+ years of learning (and habit) invested in VW.

I just want to make sure folk at VW are fully aware that many people will be comparing its 3D environment with what they get in sketchup - and that they will currently be finding certain shortfalls. I'd like that awareness to be informing the development that's currently going on, much of which seems to be very positive.

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By the way...you mention that for example VW can make door schedules and so on. I wonder how many people actually use this though? I think it might be fewer than you think. It's not an especially intuitive process, and many VW users probably work mainly on small projects where the quantities of repeated elements aren't so huge to make it necessarily worthwhile.

Of course I might be completely wrong. But this is why the analytics thing sounds like it could be hugely useful. In fact in many ways of all the new stuff announced in this thread maybe it's the most encouraging, in the longer term at least.

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Sure. Sketchup can't compete for 2D work, I agree. But I'm in the position, I think, of many who want to start to work more in 3D. And I think VW wants us to do that.

We find its not one or the other as we use both successfully. Apart from not being able to class Su objects on import the whole Su to VW pipeline is very solid as long as you follow a few fundamentals.

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We find its not one or the other as we use both successfully. Apart from not being able to class Su objects on import the whole Su to VW pipeline is very solid as long as you follow a few fundamentals.

So do you move one model back and forth between VW and SU depending on what you want to edit? I don't see how that works or how it can possibly be efficient.

I tend to have a model in SU that is for exploratory design work and/or presentation drawings. Then in parallel a set of 2D drawings in VW. These are the definitive, accurate drawings and eventually become the construction set. If I make changes to the design in either the SU model or the VW 2D drawings, then I have to replicate the changes in the other. I cant export the 2D to SU in such a way that they magically become replicated in 3D. And if I make a minor change in 3D it doesn't make sense to go through the whole export/import process in order to bring it into VW, and then the same thing for the next minor change.

Even if I had everything fully set up in 3D in VW, with all elevations, sections etc generated from the model, I don't see how making alterations in a SU model and then importing them can be an efficient process.

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Its a one way process for us Su to VW. We make changes all of the time and the process is certainly not inefficient (is that the same as being efficient?). 2015 was a huge leap forward for us with this process and it works extremely well. Maybe we have more time on our hands than you :)

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
By the way...you mention that for example VW can make door schedules and so on. I wonder how many people actually use this though? I think it might be fewer than you think. It's not an especially intuitive process, and many VW users probably work mainly on small projects where the quantities of repeated elements aren't so huge to make it necessarily worthwhile.

Of course I might be completely wrong. But this is why the analytics thing sounds like it could be hugely useful. In fact in many ways of all the new stuff announced in this thread maybe it's the most encouraging, in the longer term at least.

Yes, it is extremely common, confirmed by both experience with speaking to users as well as analytic data.

I know that the stuff above is specifically related to an export of a web view ... but the object-collision thing and easy walkaround is something that's missing from basic VW.

In sketchup it's very easy to look at stuff from "inside" - you can drop a little red cross where you want to stand, and you are transported there, with a realistic eye height already set and you can look around and walk around straight away.

In VW, to do the same seems to have to involve going to a menu, selecting set 3d view, possibly setting a working plane to make sure you are going to stand where you expect, selecting the stand point, selecting the target point, and manually inputting an eye level. And then you are ready to walk around but without the collision detection stuff and without automatically changing level as you go down steps and so on.

Just an example of simple stuff that could be made so much easier than it is.

Make sure these have been submitted as wishlist items, that kind of thing can't be picked up without requests.

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By the way...you mention that for example VW can make door schedules and so on. I wonder how many people actually use this though? I think it might be fewer than you think. It's not an especially intuitive process, and many VW users probably work mainly on small projects where the quantities of repeated elements aren't so huge to make it necessarily worthwhile.

Of course I might be completely wrong. But this is why the analytics thing sounds like it could be hugely useful. In fact in many ways of all the new stuff announced in this thread maybe it's the most encouraging, in the longer term at least.

I remember as an intern - working in Autocad - manually cross-checking a door schedule with a plan - and thinking that this felt so arcane, and there has to be a better way. We do not do BIM models - but firmly believe in leveraging the data in the plans. Basically - if you ever find yourself counting anything manually - you are doing it wrong. Not only is it slow - it is just crazy how easily it can be wrong.

This was as true on a small townhouse and apartment projects as it was on the larger condo buildings. Staff can run through a plan make some tweaks - change doors from 36 to 34 inches - never having to worry that they have to go update a schedule. VW just keeps track of the changes. At very least the door number on the plan will always match the door in the schedule.

Doors, Windows, Appliances, Lighting Schedules with automated Wattage calculations, even Millwork schedules - are all things that we now rely on. I highly recommend spending the time to set up your files to take advantage of this. We started with doors - quickly added windows. After that I had staff approaching me with smart symbols they have made to start keeping track of other things because they no longer wanted to be responsible for manually keeping track of this info anymore.

(As you can see I am very passionate when it comes to schedules. )

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
The RM should have a way of quickly and easily expanding it for short periods of time from almost nothing to a large portion of the screen. Ideally I'd like to have it docked, so it doesn't go missing, and isn't floating around messily, but I don't want it using up valuable screen space when I'm not using it.

So perhaps it can occupy a very small portion in the dock, but a single click will expand it temporarily to a useful size. And vice versa.

There might be some other palettes that would benefit from similar behaviour.

Looks like auto-hide for Mac palettes may be making an appearance as well! It's being tested heavily now.

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