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VW rectangles and dimensions disappear


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VW is really wearing me out.

I'm in front, wire frame mode, in screen plane ONLY. I want to check the size of one of my shapes. I pull a dimension and the dimension disappears as soon as I release the mouse. So I draw a rectangle and see what size it is. The rectangle disappears, but he handles remain. When I go to top/plan the rectangle appears, but does me no good because I can no longer see what I want to measure. This happens all the time. I draw rectangles, lines or other 2D objects in a projection other than top/plan and they disappear...only to reappear in a random location when I switch to top/plan. The same happens with extrudes. I try to edit an extrude by double clicking to get to the root, 2D object (as I have done for over 20 years) and often I cannot edit it (trim, clip, etc.) This is not really a question because it concerns a change in VW's drawing philosophy that seems to have hopelessly tangled the 2D and 3D worlds that used to work much better together, in my opinion. Do I need to totally re-learn VW? It seems like all my previous experience as to how best use the great tools VW provides is mostly useless. I don't really recognize this 2016 version. Is anyone else having this type of problem, older users I mean?

MH

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This sounds like more screen/layer plane shenanigans. I know you are in screen plane only, but try try drawing a rectangle. Then it disappears, but is still selected. Check you OIP - does it say "Screen Aligned", "Symbol definition" or "3D". Can you change it to "Screen" there and does that help?

I find the real issue with planes is that they behave unexpectedly inside of symbols, extrudes, and when drawing in a non Top/Plan view sometimes.

I've learned to just work through it, but I also teach VW and NYU and my students lose their minds over this inconsistent behaviors.

The best I can understand it is - your drawing world has a 0,0,0 origin. But when you are working inside of symbols, extrudes, Solid subtractions, etc. The center of that object becomes with 0,0,0 of your new geometry - so if you jump out and past in place - it remembers the x,y,z relationship to 0, but now it's referencing a different 0,0,0. I might be wrong about this and need to do some experiments.

Edited by EAlexander
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So yes - I just checked this and I am correct:

I made a 2d symbol off center in my world.

Went inside of it and made a rectangle.

Snapped it to the center of the symbol and then moved it 2 inches in X and 2 inches in Y.

Then I copied this to my clipboard.

Exit the symbol.

Paste in Place drops the rectangle 2 inches up and over from 0,0,0 of the drawing world.

What I find maddening is that I draw a rectangle in Layer plane mode. Create a symbol from it and it automatically becomes a 3D symbol (not a 2d symbol). If I enter the symbol and then change it's plane from Symbol Definition to Screen - when I exit it converts to a 2D symbol. Jim W - this cannot be the correct behavior, right?

Sorry to hijack the tread.....

Edited by EAlexander
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  • Marionette Maven

I think this has to do with Hybrid Symbols.

As an example, draw a circle and a rectangle, select both and create a symbol.

(EDIT - draw them on the layer plane, but keep the option to convert 2D objects from Layer to Screen plane in the Create Symbol dialog)

Edit the 2D symbol and change the circle from screen plane to symbol definition, it will alert you that you're now creating a hybrid symbol.

When you exit the symbol container, you'll notice that the circle will now display in 3D views, and the rectangle will appear in Top/Plan.

Maybe this can help clear things up, at least a little, as to why this occurs.

Edited by MarissaF
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Have you looked at your settings in the Create Symbol dialog? There is a checkbox that offers the option to convert 2D objects from Layer Plane to Screen Plane, if that option is checked, the 2D object should be created as a 2D symbol.

Would it be too much to say I love you! Thank you - that's been driving me crazy for months and this one check box fixes that.

Sorry to steal your thread MBrown - let us know what you find out with your disappearing rectangles.

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I want to thank Marissa, too! I had a similar problem that often when I drew a 2D object it would end up as a 3D dimensionless plane. I wish there were a way to check boxes and preferences so that VW would not change the 2D/3D nature of things unilaterally. I work in hybrid objects pretty much exclusively, so it is important that VW not get involved with decisions about 2D/3D objects.

Going back to my original post, I think what I'm experiencing is something of a bug in that some settings that control 2D/3D visualization are in conflict...leading to unpredictable and absurd results as the software tries to sort out the mixed signals. I don't think anything is "wrong," in the sense that a line of code is corrupt. It is VW tripping over itself. Maybe future versions will fix this.

It is not a class issue. I don't really use classes much. Besides, even dimensions disappear when I draw them and that class is always on. I'll try the "unified view" options and see if that is a problem.

Thanks!

MHBrown

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OK. This is officially a bug. There is no way VW is designed to make it impossible to edit a symbol. Objects disappear simply when I try to "flip" them. They appear with handles, but no lines. Stuff like that. I wish I could say I had the time to figure out exactly what is happening, but I don't. On the other hand, Ford and GM don't expect me to do their work for them, so perhaps it's time we hold software companies accountable for their own troubleshooting.

Thanks for the help!

MHBrown

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

It's officially a bug if we can replicate the issue. Without troubleshooting it can't be submitted, if I was running into it here I could troubleshoot and submit without user interaction, but since it is currently only happening on your machine, we would need you to follow steps in order to get it resolved.

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  • 2 weeks later...

No, it's not nested symbols, but ALL of my symbols are hybrid. MiniCAD/VW has had 3D/2D symbols for at least 20 years: A 2D plan view (although I don't know why it can't have 2D images for any or all of the orthographic projections. I asked for this back in the 1990s) to coexist with the 3D model. No, this is something new and not specific to my machine. I simply do not have the time I once did to tease out the problems. I have to get work done and I'll work around this one as best I can. Posting my particular symbol would just waste your time.

I think I have something in my workflow that does not jive with a new way of working with VW. It may be a better, more sophisticated way as VW has gotten more sophisticated to compete in the CAD world, but it is different. I suppose in that sense it's not a "bug," but rather something I need to figure out about my workflow and change it.

MHBrown

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