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Phil hunt

service select contract

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morning

my service select contract is up for renewal in may...i subscribe to get the upgrades and do not use any of the other add ons like cloud and support

last year i waited for and paid as we had prior knowledge of some of the

features which i thought would have helped me in my workflow ie subdivisions and marionette....unfortunately i have been disappointed in the subdivision tools and at 62 going on 63 life is to short to even learn marionette

the subdivision tool looked easy on the promo videos but its not.... easy to

model in subdivision against the subdivision tools in formz which are amazing

you may tell me otherwise but i find the whole processes long winded...

having been a vw use for 18 years i now find my self with the decision of to renew or not....i know vw will not release all the benefits of vw17 but it would certainly give me some idea before i decide to fork out £450.00 which at the moment will not benefit myself one bit

as a 3d modeller i really was exited about the subdivision tool....but i would appreciate your comments if you to struggle with this tool or if it needs a rethink

i still think vw is a fantastic piece of software.....but am i at the end of the line

in my upgrade process

your comments would be appreciated

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Phil at 62 going on 63 myself and agree life is short and shortening so its not too late to start anything. You can't take the money with you so spend it if it gives you pleasure and if you start something new and die next week at least you had a great week.

Bet you didn't expect a life lesson when asking about your subscription.

Speaking from a position where 2 1/2 years ago it was a distinct possibly I would not wake from an operation I live every day as my last and I am learning marionette and doing all the things my body and finances and of course my wife will allows.

So go for it

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I think the biggest piece missing from Subdivision is the ability to CONVERT geometry youve already made via other tools into a subdivision. This is how most other 3D software handles it and I think is an addition we need to make.

Currently, you have to start from a very simple primitive and manually go all the way to the finished product, when what would be easier would be slapping together a few extruded cylinders and cubes into a vague table or chair shape or what have you, then convert that to a subdivision and refine the various edges and curves from there. Having Subdivisions completely isolated on their own is restrictive.

As for Service Select, this thread here is actually why I'm glad we offer the software a la carte as well as on subscription. There are some use cases where users just don't need the new features or enhancements made to new versions and I don't personally believe in selling people something they don't need, even if it's how my salary is paid. I'm glad we still offer the option for someone to buy a license once, then use it as long as they need. We have a few users here I've known for years that only upgrade every 4-5 years or so and I'm glad we can cater to them.

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Sound advice Alan and thanks for replying, what you say is very true I have woken early today 05.11 hi thinking about a project that I am working on and really have no idea if marionette will speed up the job or if to do it using the tools I know and understand...I have looked at the tutorials but wonder by the time I have Inputted all the information could have completed the work

It looks a great tool but what are the real benefits and does it make life easier

Alan thanks again and hope today's good for us both

Jim thanks again for your comments

In your first sentence is this something you are looking at for the distant future or will this be an imminent addition to the tool I understand if this is top secret but a thumbs up will do. Thanks all

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Phil, I would initially do the job with what you are used to and play with marionette to learn if you are inclined. It can speed up the repetitive tasks at present but if you are doing one off design or documentation I am still looking for real uses. At the moment most of the nodes duplicate what is already in VW but I feel it will come where it will be of real use.

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I have to disagree with Jim.

The single biggest thing missing from Sub-D is the ability to texture the resulting object. Even if you add in the ability to use existing forms as as Sub-D starting point you are still left with an object that is un-texturable.

Sure you can put a single colour on there or a non repeat pattern maybe but that is it. Way back when the tool was first shown I raised it as a concern via these boards and when it arrived it was as I expected.

Since then I have raised it again with the suggestion that I transfer it into C4D and use the ageing and frankly useless, apart from simple objects, Bodypaint.

From what I have seen on here its not going to change sometime soon or ever. For me until you can UV map the resulting object then it is a pretty useless tool.

Instead of whining about it I found a different path but was a somewhat thwarted by not being able to export an .obj file, which in itself in this day and age is a huge omission. I do understand that Jim feels this way also.

The basics of the tool itself is good if not very good. The simplicity of its use is one of its main benefits but until you can texture the result or at least export to obj and texture elsewhere then it remains a pointless tool - for me at least

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Jim thanks again for your comments

In your first sentence is this something you are looking at for the distant future or will this be an imminent addition to the tool I understand if this is top secret but a thumbs up will do. Thanks all

Not super distant. THIS MESSAGE WILL SELF DESTRUCT! (not really)

I have to disagree with Jim.

The single biggest thing missing from Sub-D is the ability to texture the resulting object. Even if you add in the ability to use existing forms as as Sub-D starting point you are still left with an object that is un-texturable.

I actually agree with your disagreement with me! I hadn't thought of the texturing issue for Subdivisions as an issue with Subdivisions but an issue with Renderworks in general. However when texturing is thought of as a sub-ability of Subdivision objects themselves, then yes it moves way up the list in its importance as a feature request for SubDs specifically.

Also we will absolutely be getting OBJ Export, its needed for a whole slew of reasons.

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thanks Jim

I don't expect UV mapping to make an appearance in VW, maybe ever, but OBJ export will massively help with the texturing pipeline and will provide a decent enough workaround with 3rd party apps.

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I doubt I'd ever have become a VW user (and lately, aficionado) if there wasn't an a la carte option. I don't like companies that offer software ONLY on a subscription basis.

That said, as a now-committed VW user [to the program, not an insane asylum.. :) ] I am a VSS subscriber. I do consider the cost carefully each year, and I will say that last year's early-ish and in-depth previews of VW2016 features were quite important in convincing me to remain with VSS.

I hope April 2016 brings similar previews of VW 2017 features, and that that pattern holds through future years.

Edited by Gilbert Osmond

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I do consider the cost carefully each year, and I will say that last year's early-ish and in-depth previews of VW2016 features were quite important in convincing me to remain with VSS.

I hope April 2016 brings similar previews of VW 2017 features, and that that pattern holds through future years.

:grin:

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Jim

Without giving too much away will there be any additions to the 3d modelling palette for 2017 version

Just a hint please

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There will be improvements to existing 3D modeling capability as well as brand new functionality, yes.

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Deformer tools weren't great but will but much more useful when we can have custom objects as a starter for Sub-D.

Export OBJ will be huge for us.

Those two expected additions are going to help a lot.

Anything over and above this is a bonus

thx

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Interesting comments I do hope the sub d tool gets developed more like formz

I hate repeating myself but there tool for subdivision is very very good

Exiting times

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I've been told there will definitely be improvements to the Subdivision modeling as VW staff (local distributors and at Nemetschek) is running into shortcomings etc.

That being said, and as much as I will appreciate any improvements in 3D as mentioned above, my main "gripes" are with DWG compatibility and GIS quality/features plus some more generic things.

With Autodesk going the route it is taking and with possibly more changes coming due to activist investors (read shareholder value priority) it seems to me there is an opportunity for Vectorworks to attract new customers, but in order to do so it needs improved DWG compatibility to be a usable alternative, otherwise they'll go to the dwg based alternatives. Especially on Macs this could be crucial now that the DWG compatibles like Bricscad and Ares Commander are also on that platform.

I hear from customers how they like the flexibility and features of Vectorworks, but without an improved DWG compatibility (and improved GIS functionality) Vectorworks is not good enough for their purposes to be considered as a viable alternative as it would break things too much in some areas (e.g. text style import/export etc.) or it lacks just that little bit of extra functionality.

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Shame as the sub d videos looked great but they really never worked

I found it so hard to understand much to complicated

Please someone at vectorworks just look at the form z sub d tool and copy it

So simple so clean so productive

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Shame as the sub d videos looked great but they really never worked

I found it so hard to understand much to complicated

Please someone at vectorworks just look at the form z sub d tool and copy it

So simple so clean so productive

What specifically would you like to see us add in?

I am not arguing in any way, I agree theirs is superior, but a lot of our UI choices were made directly because of them and I'd like to hear what you really liked from them. The conversion of regular geometry INTO a subdiv being a key one in my view.

We also currently lack the ability to have multiple subdivisons interact with one another or be combined, this makes it much harder than it should be to create complex objects by making the user see the WHOLE subdiv object all the time which steers you away from making an overly complex cage. I also REALLY like FormZs transform face controls, they save a ton of clicks and I've made requests for that specifically.

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Ah the irony.... I asked for FormZ like functionality for various 3d modelling tasks a few years ago (in the time before JimW) and was told by a NV staff person that VW was already "best in its class"..... real usability is finally trumping marketing speak :-)

Kevin

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See now, I don't want us to be Best in Class. I want us to be BEST!

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Please some nurbs surface and curve/loft/sweep/trim/compose/decompose/edit updates.

Would love to see the functionality of 3d power pack and all the nurbs tools brought to 2017 standards :)

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I want us to be BEST!
Definitely! That's what I want too. I never could figure out what Class VW was in because as far as I can tell it's unique...

Please some nurbs surface and curve/loft/sweep/trim/compose/decompose/edit updates.

Would love to see the functionality of 3d power pack and all the nurbs tools brought to 2017 standards :)

Yes, please! +1

KM

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I just want to echo barkest comments.

I could care less how easy you make it to use at this point. The biggest thing missing from Sub-D is texturing. period. If I can't texture it, then I can't use it. Once UV mapping is in place (and it better be included in the next update) then yes, allowing us to convert objects to a primitive would simplify things drastically and would be a great addition.

Jim, I am glad you changed your mind and no longer believe its a Renderworks issue. Otherwise you would be setting a presidence that its okay if the modules don't work with each other. (eg. its okay that SUB-D would not work if you purchased Architect). All "Paid" modules should have seamless integration.

Just so you can see this from a different perspective. I use vectorworks because I require fast integrated rendering. Because I pay more to use Renderworks, I essentially got penalized with less. Those that don't use Renderworks got a cool new Sub-D tool and those that need and use renderworks can't use it.

As I have argued numerous times. Mapping improvements better be the first, second, and third thing on the list for Renderworks improvements this year. (Just hinting in case its not ;) )

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I'm in a similar position to you Phil and about to send a similar pos re VSS renewal costs.

I agree about Form Z, its a while since I used it but it was so easy to model, I think VW has some way to go to get anywhere close. The difference between the two is I think that VW tries to be 2D and 3D at the same time, Form Z as I recall is a very powerful dedicated 3D modelling tool. I think there is a business argument for splitting off the high end 3D function in a similar way that Landmark etc were.

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