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we can eclipse the industry


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This big project and your videos are a tribute to your vision, your skills and the power of Vectorworks. So, hats off and many thanks for sharing!

No sheets - great concept. We already have many parts and processes to eliminate most sheets. I think it will be a weaning process to get design and construction teams to think and work directly with the model.

One immediate step toward eclipsing would be for Vectorworks to adopt your project as a proof of concept - Issue a license (temporary?) to one or two of the design team offices and a training hotline to teach navigation and basics of dim and data retrieval. They can create their own sheets! As many as they want. And hopefully realize they can skip a bunch of them. At least those two offices can interact directly with the model and the model czar.

Late night implementation riffs:

•A Vectorworks product or workspace configured for model navigation and to make/display sections on the fly - view, measure, print, markup, what ever evolves - to serve as 3d virtual replacement for sheets. Kind of a Viewer on steroids.

•Saved Clip Cubes for design team distribution - Model czar can transmit small portions of the model as needed for visualization, markups, etc.

•Saved Clip Cubes with geometry and data - no need to transmit the whole model for design mods of a small part or area.

•Locator widgets during construction - virtual ones in model link to geolocators on site. Inexpensive little wireless gps markers - hammer into the concrete or stick on a pipe bend. A widget lights up in the model on my tablet when I'm near one on site. You see it in your master model in the office. Helps verify model/construction context.

•Better field equipment - sturdy screen based devices to access the whole model or the clip cubes for dims, markups, on site navigation, design mods? Hand held scanner linked to the model - compares site to model.

-B

Edited by Benson Shaw
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Issue a license (temporary?) to one or two of the design team offices and a training hotline to teach navigation and basics of dim and data retrieval.

its interesting that you said this. when i was set up for a goto meeting a while back & had the model on screen for everyone to see, i over heard some of the people from the architect office (Revit users) as they walked in say "so this is vectorworks?" in a wow i can't believe it I'm impressed type of way.

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Hi,

Have you explored the BCF (Open BIM Collaboration Format, i.e. IFC markup) file format? This format is used for the exact reasons you outline. BCF saves views of the IFC model showing clashes/issues need to be resolved. To do the markup you need software like Solibri.

Vectorworks implemented support for this in v2015.

Cheers.

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+1

Would love to see the end of "sheets" as well.

I guess building control authorities will need to translate to this method too though.

Interesting point by Benson:

•Locator widgets during construction

Thinking of the Microsoft Hololens tech, this would be crazy cool.

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@ Diamond - All true . . . buuuht

We will return to regular programming after this brief message of Vectorworks Boosterism:

Aren't we doing IFC because a certain software company is working hard to maintain its dominance (I can't blame them for that) by restricting direct translation? Maybe I'm wrong about that. But one concept of this thread is for Vectorworks to eclipse, leapfrog, the industry dominant players and their current standards, by leading Design Engineering Construction Industry past drawing & modeling focused on sheet production. Go Team VWX!!

We now return you to your regular programming.

I think the transmittal and interpretation of the model or portions of it should be easier and ubiquitous. We are getting there, IFC et al.

This could happen! I am reminded of a couple tech arcs:

•Charle Chaplan imagines video conferencing with his boss in "Modern Times" (1936). Later we got closed circuit boxing, then video rooms at Kinkos. Now we have Skype and Go to Meeting.

• Chester Gould imagined tech for Dick Tracy - the 2 way wrist radio (1946), upgraded to the video version (1967). Then we got pagers and fax, then blackberries and flip phones, now smart phones and smart watches and Face Time, and . . .

•It's all good!

-B

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Aren't we doing IFC because a certain software company is working hard to maintain its dominance (I can't blame them for that) by restricting direct translation? Maybe I'm wrong about that. But one concept of this thread is for Vectorworks to eclipse, leapfrog, the industry dominant players and their current standards, by leading Design Engineering Construction Industry past drawing & modeling focused on sheet production. Go Team VWX!!

Hi Benson,

I agree, Vectorworks needs play very smart in what is an increasingly ought and competitive market, and it needs to lead in it's core competencies — by a long way. And I would love to transition to a sheet-less BIM environment.

But as much as I love Vectorworks (and your enthusiasm), a single platform never has all of the answers.

I also suspect that many of the people that are on the Vectorworks community board, work in offices that have less than a dozen people, and do not deal with people outside their country, and do not understand the challenges of working in large teams. When I worked in small studios, it was easy to think that one platform could have all of the answers (even if it the primary tool I use everyday). Now, not so much.

BIM = Collaboration (or at least it should). We have to be able to communicate between other disciplines, and they are never going to all use Vectorworks. We need an intermediary that allows each package to talk to each other, and that is what IFC tries to achieve.

Also, IFC is a defence for the day when Vectorworks has morphed into it's next thing and is no longer around. Just ask NASA how they are going getting data off those reel-to-reel tapes they launched the moon missions on. Buildings can be around for hundreds of years, and we struggle opening files of more than 5-10 years.

So for the future, (as the video at the start of this thread shows), I think we need to look at it in terms of story telling. A sheet tells a story to a contractor in a language they (mostly;) understand.

I suspect where the true break through will occur is the BIM software company than can tell the most compelling story with all of the data in our models, in an easy way. Just as Google was able to harvest the web, the next great breakthrough in BIM is getting all of that data out of our models and into a compelling format that make people want to switch. I am sure that is why Nemetschek purchased Bluebeam.

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also, can anybody tell me that this project could not be built from just a model? (provided of course that permits, stamps etc were not an issue)

I would say, how is it going to be set out? (relating back to a grid or site boundaries) What happens if my iPad dies on site, and I need paper? How do i distribute this info for those not on the same platform. These are the types of queries I would ask to take over an industry.

Diamond, my experience with ifc is that at the end of the day i need to translate everything into an ifc then export.. what is needed is people need to view the model at any time with out me doing anything for exports etc

also Solibre is lacking some serious stuff

Yes, I agree. And I like to live with the latest tech. But this is a day by day transition, that needs to happen across and industry. Today, IFC is perhaps the best thing we have.

Cheers.

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I just watched that video you posted digitalmechanics. The competition is indeed already on it and will only progress from there. VW is behind. Your still on the right track though. Keep the ideas flowing. I like the ideas your trying to express. I hope the top dogs are also watching.

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Diamond, my experience with ifc is that at the end of the day i need to translate everything into an ifc then export.. what is needed is people need to view the model at any time with out me doing anything for exports etc

If you want people to view model data you're always going to have to send it somewhere. Call that process what you want: save, export, update, send, etc. but it's all essentially the same thing.

We just need a more efficient way to get the data from our computers to the (central) model. That could potentially be a 'Save & Commit' directly to a centralised IFC-based model.

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I just watched that video you posted digitalmechanics. The competition is indeed already on it and will only progress from there. VW is behind. Your still on the right track though. Keep the ideas flowing. I like the ideas your trying to express. I hope the top dogs are also watching.

Quoted for agreement!

I'm in a different field (music/entertainment) using Vectorworks as my main tool, but I really appreciate your work and videos digitalmechanics. I have learned a lot from them and I hope that the developers and engineers are watching as well - you have a lot of good ideas there. Know that it is noticed and appreciated.

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Markvl & EAlexander, i appreciate your words of encouragement. i really am bummed out about this.

what i like about vw is that i can do just 2d and i can also do 3d. its not a one thing or the other.

so i can make a poster that has a schematic on it showing how things work and put in the control room of this thing that i am modeling in 3d. i still do a lot of 2d work.

this always makes me feel better (totally off topic)

Old School - Alva...

the song is great

Edited by digitalmechanics
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on monday the asked me "how do i access the model and get info?" some have fumbled around with the viewer. i said i could export 3d (igs, step) no one is doing 3d but the architect using revit.

if we could give the team a viewer that could make sheets (w/ renderworks etc) but not allow any modeling then we could distribute the viewer and say take what you like.

so sheets would be done by anyone who has the viewer. unburdening the modeler from making sheets.

THIS approach could eclipse others. if you want to model or 2d in design layers then you need to buy vw but if you just want to harvest info then just use the viewer. the viewer would also have all the clipped cube viewing that others have requested.

need to show that a company can transition into the 3d world easy.

say "you can still do 2d when you need to..." "then you can ease into 3d"

this may indeed be the "exhaust port" in the Death Star

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Diamond, my experience with ifc is that at the end of the day i need to translate everything into an ifc then export.. what is needed is people need to view the model at any time with out me doing anything for exports etc

If you want people to view model data you're always going to have to send it somewhere. Call that process what you want: save, export, update, send, etc. but it's all essentially the same thing.

We just need a more efficient way to get the data from our computers to the (central) model. That could potentially be a 'Save & Commit' directly to a centralised IFC-based model.

I agree. Vectorworks needs to be able to talk IFC natively (as I think ArchiCAD does?), and make the BCF markups direct within Vectorworks. Apps like the full version of Solibri cost in excess of Au$10k, which means clients and property managers are rarely going to pony up the dosh for this.

Also on other threads, you can see the challenges we have to go through to import IFC files as overlays.

Finally on this, most people I deal with day to day have no idea what IFC is really about, or how to create IFC geometry by assigning it to IF classes.

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Hi digitalmechanics,

I wouldn't be too despondent. Fortunately the industry moves very quickly these days. Hence why the software industry has moved to a subscription model generally.

This thread has some great ideas that the industry are pursuing. 1. Survey data direct from architectural models. 2. Hololens for great ideation, and conveying complex special arrangements. 3. Apps for presenting documents.

Whilst these all reference presenting of 3D data, I think there are specific nuances to each.

1. Surely with Vectorworks adding support for getting 3D survey data into Vectorworks, it can get it out? Maybe by placing loci/geometry in a Site-DTM-Survey class or something similar.

2. With 3D, when you are in a space it can be hard to understand where you are. Which I think is a big downer for walking through a model on a computer screen. You need context. This is what stereoscopic (like Hololens) gives you.

But as cool as Hololens is, unfortunately there are some downsides. You would need the tech to fit inside a normal pair of glasses for general people to use it. And then there is the fact that many people get seasick no matter what version of stereoscopic they use (besides their own eyes ;).

3. We need to present to clients, consultants, and contractors. The closest I have seen to this would be ArchiCAD's BIMx app (it is also available on Mac & PC). (BIMx - Building Information Model eXplorer by Graphisoft SE https://appsto.re/au/Wi8-A.i) It is great to displaying models, but also switching between sections to show structural/spacial context. Throw in a great mark-up tool something akin to the new Apple iOS Notes app drawing capabilities, as well as the push to survey point data mentioned in point 1, and you have an amazing app solution for site or office.

I can't wait! :)

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@DM - No need to be depressed. Get proud!

You had the vision and skill and team connections and patience to work your way into this big project, become the lead modeler on software of your choice.

So what if other software offers similar features? The other offices and team members may have had software and other assets to achieve what you are doing but did not realize the potential or develop the skills in-house. They are benefitting massively from your efforts. Maybe that will lead to them adopting your fine attitude.

My hat remains doffed.

-B

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Yes I agree get Proud for what you have done so far.

So now all you need to do is to work out or get someone to convert it over to an .exe file like the gaming programs do.

I used to play with Unity3D and other games that came with a developer kits and once you create the game program you export it as a .exe file that others can use, full access to all the parts and uses without them seeing your original file.

This may be what you need.

HTH

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