Make Vectorworks Boot Faster

[Bruce Kieffer]

Please make Vectorworks boot faster.

[Art V]

I'm not sure if your copy of Vectorworks is loading excruciatingly slow or just the "regular not really fast but not really slow either".

It is loading notably faster than AutoCAD (my "tolerance benchmark" for application loading until ready to start for use) so I'm not too concerned about the loading time. Boot/loading time is often a once or few times a day.

That being said, what I would like much much more than faster booting/loading is faster operational speed (without crashing of course) on large documents. Vectorworks slows down much more than most other CAD software I am using when the file size and content size increases and that has a much bigger impact on productivity than boot/load time.

[Bruce Kieffer]

I just timed the boot. 18 seconds. Seems like an eternity. No other app I have takes that long. They boot in a few seconds at the most.

[Jonathan Pickup]

Do you have many Favorites in the Resource Browser?

[Kevin McAllister]

VW2016 definitely takes longer to boot up than VW2015.

KM

[Bruce Kieffer]

Do you have many Favorites in the Resource Browser?

Yes I do. 12.

[Art V]

Upon first (re)start after a crash VW2016 took 2.5 times the startup time for VW2015.

After closing and opening again with the default template the difference was 1 second, 9 secs for VW2015 and 10 secs for VW2016, which imho is not too bad.

[PVA - Admin]

This thread was created before the voting system existed, but this is the most recent wish specifically about this topic so I highly encourage anyone interest in it to vote now.

[Jim Smith]

More speed is always welcome, here are some random results:

 

I have two MacBook Pros; this one running OS10.12.3

2.5 GHz Intel Core i5

8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB

VW 2017 takes 34 seconds to launch

VW 2016 takes 27 seconds to launch

 

The other one is older running OS 10.6.8

2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo

8 GB 1067 MHz DDR3

VW 2014 takes 52 seconds to launch

 

Now, the newer machine is up & running and has been running both programmes today. The older machine I only just opened it up a few minutes before running VW so that may result in a slower start-up result.

[Bruce Kieffer]

Yep, Vectorworks 2017 on my new MacBook Pro 13" Touch Bar takes longer to boot than any older version on any other machine I have owned. This is the wrong way to be going!

[PVA - Admin]

This issue is filed under VB-133441 as well as VE-98295, but this was brought up again here:

Finally had time to do a proper test. I have 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 all installed on the same machine, all reset to factory default preferences with no user favorite files added. This is more about comparing the speed without library indexing, ill do another test where i have added the same large number of libraries to each version and see how badly that affects it in a bit.

The hardware used is the MacBook pro in my signature with PCIE solid state storage, one of the fastest storage options available for normal consumer use, to remove the somewhat fluctuating delays brought on by use of an HDD as a variable. Same CPU, same OS version. The test was done after the machine had been rebooted entirely and each version had had it's initial launch done as the first launch after system reboot can be unusually slow.

Vectorworks launch times, taken as an average of 3 restarts in a row:

Vectorworks 2015: 15.9 seconds

Vectorworks 2016: 16.1 seconds

Vectorworks 2017: 23.2 seconds

Vectorworks 2018: 33.5 seconds

An appreciable increase is noticed. All 3 of the 2015 and 2016 times were all well within a tenth of a second of each other, so id chalk that up to margin of error. But when it comes to 2017 compared to previous versions, and 2018 compared even just to 2018, there is a significant increase in startup time. So even without the use of extensive user favorites there is a dramatic difference in loading times.

Admittedly yes, the newer versions are capable of more and have more going on, but ALL of the Vectorworks boot times were much longer than other applications that users might compare them to. A few quick and less rigorous tests below:

Outlook for Mac version 15.32: 3.8 seconds 

 

Excel for Mac version 15.32: 4.1 seconds

 

Unity 5.3.1: 2.92 seconds

Photoshop CC: 3.2 seconds

Rhino for Mac 5.3.2:  5.8 seconds

ArchiCAD 21: 22.4 seconds

[Kevin McAllister]

VW 2018 takes about 50 seconds on my machine below - MacBook Pro with a solid state drive.

 

KM

 

[Art V]

1 hour ago, JimW said:

This issue is filed under VB-133441 as well as VE-98295, but this was brought up again here:

Vectorworks launch times, taken as an average of 3 restarts in a row:

Vectorworks 2017: 23.2 seconds

Vectorworks 2018: 33.5 seconds

 

VW2017 takes 20 seconds consistently all three times on a 500GB Samsung Evo (not the Pro version) on my system with an i5 that is now 3 generations old.

Given that your processor is faster and your PCIE SSD should be quite a bit faster as well  it is a bit strange as I would expect my machine to be slower.

Though VW2017 does start approx. twice as slow on my machine as well compared to VW2015/2016.

I don't mind a bit slower loading times as that is usually a one time thing during a session, but if this slowdown is also indicative for resource usage/overall speed in use on a machine then it is not a good thing.

Could you please also do a quick compare of loading a large/heavy file to see if there is a difference between VW2016/2017/2018? If the difference is marginal then I'm not going to worry too much.

 

(I have my own very large and heavy file, but not 2018 so can't test myself yet)

[PVA - Admin]

1 minute ago, Art V said:

Given that your processor is faster and your PCIE SSD should be quite a bit faster as well  it is a bit strange as I would expect my machine to be slower.

 

Mac and Windows load times are not directly comparable to one another, even on identical hardware. 

Loading the demo file I used at the summit opening to a sheet layer (No OpenGL caching needed):

Vectorworks 2018: 8.1 seconds

Vectorworks 2017: 7.9 seconds

Vectorworks 2016: 8.1 seconds

 

Loading the demo file I used at the summit opening to a design layer (triggering OpenGL caching):

Vectorworks 2018: 34.9 seconds

Vectorworks 2017: 34.7 seconds

Vectorworks 2016: 35.1 seconds

However, the speed of opening files and the speed of launching Vectorworks to a new blank starting file wouldn't be directly comparable either, they involve different systems. 

[Art V]

1 hour ago, JimW said:

Mac and Windows load times are not directly comparable to one another, even on identical hardware. [...]

However, the speed of opening files and the speed of launching Vectorworks to a new blank starting file wouldn't be directly comparable either, they involve different systems. 

Thanks Jim for the comparison, it seems that the basic speed after startup is not significantly different though there may be some differences with some tools. In the long run that is more important to me than startup times.

[PVA - Admin]

11 minutes ago, Art V said:

Thanks Jim for the comparison, it seems that the basic speed after startup is not significantly different though there may be some differences with some tools. In the long run that is more important to me than startup times.

I think a lot of the user-side emphasis on launch speed stems from the number of times a user experiencing problems needs to restart Vectorworks in a given day. So reducing not only launch speed, but also removing the need to restart so often in combination will dramatically improve the experience.

[Art V]

19 hours ago, JimW said:

I think a lot of the user-side emphasis on launch speed stems from the number of times a user experiencing problems needs to restart Vectorworks in a given day. So reducing not only launch speed, but also removing the need to restart so often in combination will dramatically improve the experience.

That does make sense, though removing the need to restart might be a bit difficult as it also may depend on hardware why  Vectorworks crashes. Some software automatically restarts after a crash and then asks to open the last used file or last saved file in case there is a backup save. Is this something that is being considered for implementation?

[PVA - Admin]

2 hours ago, Art V said:

Some software automatically restarts after a crash and then asks to open the last used file or last saved file in case there is a backup save. Is this something that is being considered for implementation?

I have requested exactly that after I saw Word do that kind of autorecovery once and save me an entire night of typing.

[zoomer]

I'm used to have this in Modo.

It works quite well.

Seems to have a temp cache as it brings back the last state of the working file,

not just the backup file from 8 minutes before.

 

Microstation constantly writes into the file by using a temp file beneath to ensure

the working file stays consistent in case of a crash while saving.

Files itself never get corrupt but there were tools to find and select corrupt elements.

(Or duplicates + overlappings + gaps)

 

BTW,

if you accept to send a crash report to C4D and inserted your eMail address,

6 hours later you will receive an eMail that either explains that the crash was caused

by a third party plugin and where you should ask for support or asks for a demo file

that they can replicate and fix that bug immediately.

Edited October 4, 2017 by zoomer

[Kevin McAllister]

4 hours ago, zoomer said:

Microstation constantly writes into the file by using a temp file beneath to ensure

the working file stays consistent in case of a crash while saving.

Files itself never get corrupt but there were tools to find and select corrupt elements.

(Or duplicates + overlappings + gaps)

I would be great to have a tool to find corrupt elements.

 

4 hours ago, zoomer said:

BTW,

if you accept to send a crash report to C4D and inserted your eMail address,

6 hours later you will receive an eMail that either explains that the crash was caused

by a third party plugin and where you should ask for support or asks for a demo file

that they can replicate and fix that bug immediately.

Its interesting how different the priorities are in a piece of software that's actively competing for business in a production oriented industry like film/tv.

 

Kevin

 

[Art V]

On 10/3/2017 at 8:09 PM, JimW said:

This issue is filed under VB-133441 as well as VE-98295, but this was brought up again here:

Finally had time to do a proper test. I have 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 all installed on the same machine, all reset to factory default preferences with no user favorite files added. This is more about comparing the speed without library indexing, ill do another test where i have added the same large number of libraries to each version and see how badly that affects it in a bit.

The hardware used is the MacBook pro in my signature with PCIE solid state storage, one of the fastest storage options available for normal consumer use, to remove the somewhat fluctuating delays brought on by use of an HDD as a variable. Same CPU, same OS version. The test was done after the machine had been rebooted entirely and each version had had it's initial launch done as the first launch after system reboot can be unusually slow.

Vectorworks launch times, taken as an average of 3 restarts in a row:

Vectorworks 2015: 15.9 seconds

Vectorworks 2016: 16.1 seconds

Vectorworks 2017: 23.2 seconds

Vectorworks 2018: 33.5 seconds

An appreciable increase is noticed. All 3 of the 2015 and 2016 times were all well within a tenth of a second of each other, so id chalk that up to margin of error. But when it comes to 2017 compared to previous versions, and 2018 compared even just to 2018, there is a significant increase in startup time. So even without the use of extensive user favorites there is a dramatic difference in loading times.
 

Finally it was possible to get VW2018 downloaded approx. an hour ago and just installed it to test the start-up times.

Vectorworks 2018 starts faster than 2017, just a tiny little bit but still not as bad as reported so far. Only VW2015 was fluctuating a little but the others timed consistently the same.

 

My times, on a 500 GB Samsung Evo as system drive in the desktop:

Vectorworks launch times, taken as an average of 3 restarts in a row:

Vectorworks 2015: 13 seconds (average from 12/14/13)

Vectorworks 2016: 14 seconds (all 3 times)

Vectorworks 2017: 20 seconds (all 3 times)

Vectorworks 2018: 19 seconds (all 3 times)

[zoomer]

9 hours ago, Kevin McAllister said:

I would be great to have a tool to find corrupt elements.

 

I think that tool diminished with their new file system around 2003, not sure.

 

But it would be nice for VW.

Better than trying to delete half/half to find such objects.

 

 

And C4D is one of the most stable App I know.

Maybe they are not used that it can even crash and I was a talk in the whole company.

.... have you heard someone crashed our App ! .... No ! .... Yes ! .... Oh !

Edited October 5, 2017 by zoomer

[Matt Overton]

On 10/5/2017 at 5:36 AM, JimW said:

I have requested exactly that after I saw Word do that kind of autorecovery once and save me an entire night of typing.

 

Talking to your previous CEO's on his last tour of Oz, it was suggested tying open Back up file with the crash report button would get more people to report crashes and get us back up and running on our work faster. Then he went and retired. 

 

Hoping Apple have plans here once APFS becomes more common. Use APFS block copy on write to encourage developers to write every change then use snapshot as explicit user saves.  Make backup files something that just works.

[Jim Smith]

VW 2018 took two launches to boot today. Now this maybe because I clear history from Safari every so often I had to force quit the first time as almost 5 minutes had elapsed with the software hung up. The second launch took 1 minute & 38 seconds. I tried a 3rd and it was still 45 seconds.

 

VW 2018 SP1

MacBook Pros;  OS10.12.6

2.5 GHz Intel Core i5

8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3

Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB

 

 

[Kevin McAllister]

I think its getting hung up with the "allow outside connections" dialog. VW has always had trouble with this but it may be more accentuated with VW2018.

KM

[Jim Smith]

Thanks Kevin, I'll see if I can address this