AlanW Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hi, Been having 8-10 crashes a day and with the help of an expert who may have given a reason has suggested the following. Am trialling this now to see if it helps, so maybe other with same issues may try. The problem can happens when some or all of the Attributes palette is set to use class style. When this condition is met, every time your mouse runs over the palette, memory leaks in a big chunk, eventually leading to a crash. There are two things you can do in the interim to prevent this: 1. Move the attributes palette so it is not in a position where the mouse runs over it. Where you have it now is NOT a good position in this regard. 2. Click on the little disclosure arrow at the bottom of the palette and choose Remove By Class Settings. This will prevent it from happening at all and while it may not be your desired option, it could be the lesser of two evils. In this case, you would then have to manually set new objects to use class styles, by choosing Make All Attributes By Class with the object selected. HTH Quote Link to comment
Ozzie Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Been experiencing more crashes using 2016 compared to 2015 Autosave set to 7 minutes and Ctrl S lots D Quote Link to comment
POA Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Alan, That is absolutely mad! I would be interested to know if it helps, and also whether it is a PC only issue or if it is the same on Macs. Keep us updated! Quote Link to comment
Art V Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Alan, I notice you are on VW2015 and so am I, but I do not have this issue with the attributes palette. Are you on a Mac or a Windows computer? Quote Link to comment
AlanW Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Sorry, haven't updated my signature and 2015 was smooth. Quote Link to comment
Art V Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 No problem, though it gave me some hope the issue might be related to the user's computer system rather than Vectorworks 2016, so that hope is sort of gone now. :cry: Quote Link to comment
Markvl Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 I've been noticing some crashes as well (unexplained though). To many really. I'll have to keep a closer eye on things (document them) and save often. Quote Link to comment
AlanW Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 If you type in to your start "search program and files" Reliability Monitor you will get this so its a history of the problems. Shows the crashes. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted October 20, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted October 20, 2015 On Windows, we're currently tracking a strange one with Class Attributes. With this turned on for a large number of objects (which is normal use), resizing the attributes palette, moving those objects, changing the class attributes, anything that would trigger a refresh of attribute assignments seems to be building up what are known as "GDI Handles" which, if they reach around 10,000, crash Vectorworks. During normal operation, Vectorworks should just hover around 2800 or so of these handles maximum, but there is an error or leak where these handles are not released and keep building up until a crash occurs. Unfortunately, the workaround of "Disable class attributes on all objects" is pretty much useless, since any fleshed out documents would likely use this extensively. Restarting the application completely resets this and can often allow you to avoid the crashes entirely if done regularly, but again this is overly annoying as a temporary fix. For any interested users, this utility from Microsoft: https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx Can be used to monitor these handles and see when they start to reach a critical state (Anything over 7,000 in my tests here) and then restart accordingly. Simply run the app, scroll down on the left hand side until you see Vectorworks 2016 (if its running) then double click on it to bring up the details and then select the Performance tab. Near the bottom right you'll see GDI Handles which will rise constantly in Vectorworks 2016. Sorry for the pile of technical info, but I mainly want to make sure users that are experiencing the general symptom of "Random Crashing" can diagnose whether this is the issue they're seeing, or if its something else that needs attention and patching. Quote Link to comment
Art V Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Jim, Given this is a bit of a really nasty bug with the attributes palette on Windows I guess there will be an intermediate patch to fix this. Would that be a correct assumption or will it be fixed with a regular SP in the future? When I get my copy of 2016 I'll run a test with some of the larger drawings with 1(0)000's of objects if it hasn't been fixed by then if that would help. Quote Link to comment
ericjhberg Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Jim, We are currently holding off on the switch from 2015 to 2016 precisely because of this issue. I have been testing it for our office and it crashes far too often to be viable for now. Is there a fix coming? Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted October 20, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted October 20, 2015 When I get my copy of 2016 I'll run a test with some of the larger drawings with 1(0)000's of objects if it hasn't been fixed by then if that would help. For the test, the more complex the file, the more likely the crash is to occur quickly. So yes that would be ideal. Given this is a bit of a really nasty bug with the attributes palette on Windows I guess there will be an intermediate patch to fix this. Would that be a correct assumption or will it be fixed with a regular SP in the future? Jim, We are currently holding off on the switch from 2015 to 2016 precisely because of this issue. I have been testing it for our office and it crashes far too often to be viable for now. Is there a fix coming? Yes, there will be a fix and its being pushed as fast as possible. This is considered top priority for obvious reasons. However, they are still looking for other user actions that might be erroneously increasing this handle count just in case, but class attribute assignment seems to be the main culprit. Quote Link to comment
David S Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Have encountered similar problems and submitted screen grabs and tests via Alexander to concur same issues. Hope it helps. David Quote Link to comment
AlanW Posted October 20, 2015 Author Share Posted October 20, 2015 Jim thanks for the update, I will do what you suggest and monitor the results. Am persisting with 2016 because it's no use sticking your head in the sand, I am keen to use it to its max. Thanks. Quote Link to comment
AlanW Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 Jim, Found that yes the fasted way to get the GDI handles up is to mouse over the attributes info pallet and within a few minutes of continually mousing over and off the program crashed exactly on 10,000 GDI handles. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted October 29, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted October 29, 2015 This should be fixed soon, there were a number of different functions found to cause this and they are being corrected. Quote Link to comment
David S Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Thanks for letting us know Jim. That day can't come soon enough D Quote Link to comment
AlanW Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 (edited) Hows this coming Jim?? Still persisting but crashing at least 4-5 times a day. Maybe I might try taking the file off the server and putting on desktop?? PS still don't know how to quote someone, maybe you could fill me in please. Thanks Edited November 10, 2015 by Alan Woodwell Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted November 10, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted November 10, 2015 Click "Quick Quote" at the bottom right of the post you wish to quote from. It will still be fixed, but again as always no dates until it becomes official, apologies. Quote Link to comment
LaurieW Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Hi All, I have been experiencing the same crash problem. GDI handles reach 10,000 and boom! Crash. Would be great to have this one fixed. Thanks. Laurie (first post ever, hope I've done this right!) _______________________________________ VW2016 SP1 Landmark Windows 7, Intel Core i7-2600 CPU @ 3.4GHz 8Gb Ram, 64 Bit Operating System Quote Link to comment
Art V Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 (edited) Jim, I've done some testing on the very large files, but was a bit surprised it took quite some time for the files to have the GDI count get close to 10,000 before it would crash. On a lighter file, when adding lots of text and copying text items/panning/zooming the 10,000 count was reached faster and VW would crash. One time it also crashed around 6,500. Hardly any other things were done during those sessions besides the adding text on a design layer. Changing classes of items was very limited. Other than this GDI count issue VW2016 has been quite stable for me and not that much slower if at all than VW2015 with these drawings. Based on the differences between the heavy and the less heavy drawing it seems to me it is not as much as the number of items being regenerated for class properties in the drawing but more the number of actions/regenerations that makes the GDI count go up quickly. i.e. updating 300,000 objects for class properties twice is not going to do much, but updating 300 objects for class properties during panning/copying 70 times is more likely to cause issues and increase the GDI count more rapidly. Edited November 11, 2015 by Art V Quote Link to comment
sak1850 Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hi Jim I have been posting about random crashes and have monitored the GDI handles and this was the reason 10,000 and boom! Your tech guys have been aware of this for nearly a month now, why has a patch not been released, it means we have to monitor the handles, close the programme when it gets above 7500 reopen, reload and carry on. Not an acceptable way to run a programme. Please ask the programmers to give this absolute priority, 2016 may have a lot of new features that I have not even been able to explore yet because the problems caused by crashing have substantially added to our workload. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted November 16, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hi Jim I have been posting about random crashes and have monitored the GDI handles and this was the reason 10,000 and boom! Your tech guys have been aware of this for nearly a month now, why has a patch not been released, it means we have to monitor the handles, close the programme when it gets above 7500 reopen, reload and carry on. Not an acceptable way to run a programme. Please ask the programmers to give this absolute priority, 2016 may have a lot of new features that I have not even been able to explore yet because the problems caused by crashing have substantially added to our workload. Glad we were able to diagnose it! Once a patch that corrects the issue is complete and ready for deployment, it will be released. There is no reason we would delay something so important, unfortunately just because engineering or tech is aware of a problem does not mean that the fix will be moments away. Quote Link to comment
halfcoupler Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 Hi Jim, Vectorworks is a great program. It's clear that patches take time and can't be released the day after the problem occurs. What's annoying is that service select users feel misused as beta-testers, trying to run a programme that is announced as "ready to work", loosing lots of time with crashes and testing. If VW 2016 were released as "test it out, but we will call it a stable version a few months later" everyone had known what to expect and no one would be disappointed. So as always, its mainly a matter of communication. Meanwhile I have set the GDI handles to 100,000 or so, which results in a halfway stable version, but the delay when changing layers or classes is still there. So I'll be patient and wait for SP2. Quote Link to comment
Vectorworks, Inc Employee PVA - Admin Posted November 16, 2015 Vectorworks, Inc Employee Share Posted November 16, 2015 Unfortunately sometimes things like this can slip through testing, but this wouldn't have anything to do with Service Select subscribers, anyone who installed even as late as the release of SP1 would see this bug. However, I AM a proponent of a public beta phase before release in addition to the closed phases we use now, where things like this would be more easily caught. We implement some automated testing systems here (since testing ALL of Vectorworks is an insanely daunting task even for the dozens of QA personnel we employ) but I think more crowd-centric testing would improve things even further. Quote Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.