VW 2016 - Cameras

[zoomer]

Did anybody test cameras from 2015 files ?

To look what's new I loaded my current larger 2015 project in VW 2016 and

started with cameras.

VW ate the first camera that I tried called xxx-10, and gave me a xxx-11 instead.

When double clicking in the camera list, all fields in the OIP were empty.

Activating the next camera worked, the camera was also shown, but trying

to edit in Fine Tune made their Z-height jump.

If you are playing around the cameras start leaving the building.

Nothing changed for bugs like editing certain camera values in OIP, like Z value

will give total chaos ...

Funny is that exporting the file from 2016 to C4D gives me 3 copies of each camera,

2 with the correct name, the other just called "camera".

BTW

In Cinema the cameras look quite ok but still have wrong sensor size and therefor

focal length

[zoomer]

The new cameras have these little frame corners so we don't need

the crop anymore to see where the camera looks

Is there way to adjust the size of the frame, indicated by these frame corners,

on screen ?

When I had a crop and deselected the camera I could zoom of the crop frame

by "zoom to objects" at about 80% of the view window size.

(For grabing renedered screen shots)

The screen size of the camera view with frame corner marks is much smaller.

When I try to make it bigger on screen - I change camera values instead.

Wish :

I would like to see a complete frame like the crop frame, additional to the

frame corner marks.

So that I can be sure what elements are in/out and touching frame border.

[zoomer]

So that we got more features in RW to make rendering even better,

in 2016 there still is no convenient way save these as Pixel images.

I saw the GSG video for RW.

The explained way by viewports, size over DPI settings and use of

marquee is not a convenient way in my eyes.

[PVA - Admin]

For any of the things youre noticing in files that came from 2015 to 2016, once youve converted them, perform this procedure to bring everything into a new blank 2016 document:

http://kbase.vectorworks.net/questions/790/Layer+Import

If the issue stops, it was conversion or file specific, if not, then it may be something Vectorworks/operation specific. This will help narrow it down, but in either case, the file and report should be sent to your support as well, its much easier to track issues through normal support channels during release when forum activity is so high. I don't mean to say you SHOULDN'T keep posting about it here, I just don't want to miss anything accidentally.

[Dave Donley]

Hello zoomer:

To get images out of viewports on the Mac you can copy the viewport in VW and in Preview choose Create from Clipboard. I use that all the time.

There is a bug where if the camera is on a layer with non-zero elevation you will see the camera drift each time you activate it. To workaround that for now put the camera on a layer with layer height of 0.

I will try to find out about the other issues, if you can send a file that would help.

The blue viewfinder corners are located based on the chosen aspect ratio I believe.

[zoomer]

Thanks Dave.

Hello zoomer:

To get images out of viewports on the Mac you can copy the viewport in VW and in Preview choose Create from Clipboard. I use that all the time.

Want to point out again that :

activate suited camera > hit Render (occording to output settings) > save image as

in my Modo, Cinema, Microstation is still even easier.

But I do this screen grab too.

It is currently my only way to bring out images.

I extra bought a screen shot app to make this a little more convenient.

It works ok in 2015 as my clients are still happy with the 1600x1000 resolution

that I get out by maxing crop in view of my 30" monitor estate.

That may change one time.

In 2015 that goes like this.

1. Activate camera by double click from camera lister.

2. Deselect camera by clicking in an empty space

3. Now you can fit in or maximize the Camera Crop to about 80% of the view window.

4. Switch to RW render mode to render

5. Use screen grab app

6. Go back to 5. if somehow cross hair cursor traces or other text info fields

came after you started screen grab app and try it again.

As long as you only switch between cameras that crop fit stays.

If you meanwhile had to go to standard view - start from 1. again.

In 2016 you can't maximize the camera crop, it is only about 60% of the view window

estate. So only 1200x800 pixel left for scree grabs.

There is a bug where if the camera is on a layer with non-zero elevation you will see the camera drift each time you activate it. To workaround that for now put the camera on a layer with layer height of 0.

OK,

so that is exactly that strange behavior with camera heights going havoc I experienced.

My cameras are all on Story layers with a height.

I did this because there was always total chaos changing the Z-Height of VW cameras

in the OIP. So instead I put all cameras on their story layer to only set a little height

correction from the 1.6 m by Fine Tune Camera tool.

Even editing these values by OIP gave chaos BTW.

Wish :

Option to lock camera+target height (to avoid distortion)

I will try to find out about the other issues, if you can send a file that would help.

The usual NDA problem.

Maybe I have a special test only file.

The blue viewfinder corners are located based on the chosen aspect ratio I believe.

I expect them to show the aspect ratio set in camera, and to show what's included and what not.

But I would better like that camera crop maximized to full view window,

(for use screen shots and visibility reasons in general)

with the rest areas top/bottom or sides, coming from different aspect ratio of view window

separated by a line and/or darkened/grayed.

If VW had this,

a "save/render image" of just that camera crop/aspect ratio,

together with saving the pixel size (one dimension fixed to aspect ratio of camera)

and a selectable Render Mode and Image format,

would solve the problem of how to get images out of VW.

[zoomer]

To not get misunderstood,

that 2015 crop (for all perspectives) needed to be activated for cameras was terrible !

As you could no more work and control in 3D views set to perspective mode.

Without the 2015 crop needed, in 2016 it is much better in general.

[Dave Donley]

Very good, thanks for the detailed info zoomer!

[zoomer]

Pity is,

we now have a lot of new camera "features",

like we can set even an exotic left/right tilt angle,

but the most important little setting from C4D cameras was left out :

The "Film Offset X/Y"

which allows the typical architectural perspectives where you can look up

without having distorted vertical edges.

[zoomer]

I think for DOF the cameras need an optical indicator for Focal Distance.

The easiest way had been to simply use the target as Focal Point,

together with adding a Line between the ends of the lines indicating

the view angle (To see what's in focus)

Or a rectangle in 3D Wireframe Views to estimate the focus plane.

(Currently you can't see anything but camera+target position marked

by points only)

If the Target is independent from the Focus Plane,

which may be a bit more flexible but more complex,

i think there has to be an extra line (2D) or rectangle (3D).

[zoomer]

Camera Lister :

1.

It should keep the row sizes.

F.e. if I enlarge the Camera Name Row, it works for a Session only,

but should be kept after the File gets reopened.

2.

Like for Lights, in the Camera Lister, there is a RMB context menu

containing the common "New" entry.

If I click on this, nothing happens.

It should activate the "Renderworks Camera Tool" from "Visualization Palette"

like it does for the lights.

3.

I wish for the Light -> new there was an Entry for Heliodon beside the other

Light Types. As the Heliodon is listed in Light Lister later anyway.

[zoomer]

When a Camera View is activated, changing to another View Mode like

Iso should not destroy Camera Position and Orientation.

I even think that manual View Changes like Scrolling should not influence

Camera Settings. That is what Fine Tune Camera is for.

Just the amount you can control with the sliders could be a bit larger.

Anyway, together with things mentioned above and that Z Height Bug,

I destroy my own Cameras in VW 2016 much more often as I did in 2015.

Even in a new file, without any Story Layers with a height applied, my 2016

cameras got nuts from time to time.

BTW

If a Camera was converted into a Viewport,

it won't be available for an C4D export anymore.

[PVA - Admin]

Thank you for keeping related notes in this thread, this makes it much easier for engineering to refer back to your info. They have their eye on this, this thread was even on the big screen in a meeting I walked by recently

[zoomer]

I'll continue if I find something new.

Currently I'm in Cinema Exchange testing ...

[zoomer]

I have a small Test File where I wanted to check if an RW Style with activated Lines

will work now for a 1-point Perspective.

As I missed some Lines on some Edges I started playing with Mesh Smoothing

Crease Angles suddenly everything screwed up.

Meanwhile the file has many strange things :

- Using one of my Custom Render Styles from Ressource Browser for the

Camera=Viewport or View Window now takes far too long.

Don't know if a user can destroy a Render Style or Crease Angles.

- If I try to Render the Viewport, it meanwhile aborts with "Not enough Memory"

- In OpenGL with Lines activated, one of the Cylinders shows strange Lines

on top now.

- This problematic Cylinder Extrude, the Original which I used to copy the other 2,

has no Red Cap when using Clip Cube.

- The Finder File Thumbnail does not show any Geometry, just the Background only.

File :

- Simple Geometry

- Common Render Quality Settings, not too "highres"

- Artistic Edges applied to RW Style "Realistic Exterior Fast LINES"

- Heliodon used

- Camera converted to Viewport

- VP Camera perpendicular to geometry = 1-Point/Central Perspective

- Viewport Size = Layout/Paper size without borders

(To be able to save a JPEG with given Pixel Resolution)

- Crease Angle now 50

Attention :

The File is Zipped ! - delete the last .vwx file extension and unzip.

(Which is not an allowed upload format (!?), so I had to add another .vwx ending behind the .zip)

[zoomer]

^

I will add this behavior :

https://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=216515#Post216515

to happen for me in that demo file also.

[Dave Donley]

Hello zoomer:

The sheet layer viewport is at a nearly 1:1 scale, which is probably why it is running out of memory.

[zoomer]

But it was from the beginning, and it rendered in some 5 minutes or so

until yesterday..

This was my attempt to get a camera view rendered and save it out of VW

as an JPEG Image at a certain Pixel resolution,

without the need of the Marquee and without any unwanted borders.

If I watch the viewport in Publish Manager, it will give me a 2400x1800 px,

which is the resolution I want to render.

I thought a Sheet Layer is always 1:1 in cm, like a A4 Paper size is 21x29,7 cm,

so that Text I add will have the correct size.

[Dave Donley]

Hello again zoomer:

Change the Indirect Lighting to Exterior. Immediate Preview, Slow Resolve is slower to resolve than the others. It has the only advantage that you don't have to wait to see gray splats as the lighting is calculated. We added the "Slow Resolve" part to let people know that it actually takes a long time to finish.

There are two extrudes in the same location, strange black artifacts when draw edges is on in OpenGL is a hallmark of overlapping geometry. I believe that is also the reason for why the clip cube is not showing red caps.

The very high anti-aliasing is taking a long time, you might be able to get by with High instead. In general the AA in 2016 is better.

[zoomer]

Hi Dave,

thanks.

Change the Indirect Lighting to Exterior. Immediate Preview, Slow Resolve is slower to resolve than the others. It has the only advantage that you don't have to wait to see gray splats as the lighting is calculated. We added the "Slow Resolve" part to let people know that it actually takes a long time to finish.

OK, didn't read that (slow) exactly,

thought only 2 bounces are faster and would be ok for a test.

Of course I want to see my psychedelic splats ....

Good to know.

There are two extrudes in the same location, strange black artifacts when draw edges is on in OpenGL is a hallmark of overlapping geometry. I believe that is also the reason for why the clip cube is not showing red caps.

That is what I thought to,

as I realized one time that there were many duplicate and triple objects in my scene, that I couldn't explain myself.

And I am sure that I deleted the duplicates. At least for all boxes !

If I look again in that file that I sent, I see that there are again many duplicates.

And the new Purge Coincident Objects does not work for these.

I'try to delete them again ....

The very high anti-aliasing is taking a long time, you might be able to get by with High instead. In general the AA in 2016 is better.

OK.

Yes, I wasn't satisfied with AA as it was before, that's why I always used very high.

Currently I can Render Camera and Design Views ok again,

but can't assign the corrected RW Styles to my Viewport (Memory)

So I switched the Viewport to Wireframe again > now I have a Wireframe with PINK background

[zoomer]

Hello zoomer:

The sheet layer viewport is at a nearly 1:1 scale, which is probably why it is running out of memory.

OK, I see what you mean.

Happened accidentally while screwing around.

When I created Viewport and Layout, I tried to create the Viewport at the same

size as the Layout (Pixel amount => cm/100) to not need the marquee nor get

a white paper/printer boarder.

It doesn't work like this in a convenient way anway.

But you were right, the viewport was too big in 1:1 and gave too much resolution

to RW to render, so the Memory Message makes sense.

(I see posts in the German Forum that I'm not the only one running into that memory problem)

[zoomer]

Hallo Dave,

Concerning the File I provided,

I have cleaned and repaired the things you mentioned,

everything works fine now !

Thanks !

[Dave Donley]

OK great!

[zoomer]

Set Camera in OIP,

I would like to set the familiar Focus Length for 35 mm Full Frame Film in OIP,

not the Field of View Angle. Like it is done in Fine Tune Camera.

(Plus the 35 mm equivalent when using an other sensor size, optional)

(Which Field of View Angle by the way,

the Horizontal in Top Plan View, the Vertical in a side View or the angle of

the cone including the image corners)

The 2D graphical representation of the Camera angle for me is a clue to see

what will be included, what not and what will likely disturb if I move/rotate

too much, only.

[zoomer]

And I really think the Crosses indicating Field of View in Camera Views

should be a "complete" Rectangle (in 1 Pixel size and a customizable Color)

Without the Lines you will have to estimate if there will unwanted objects

destroy your sensitive Image Borders or not.

Like only the most expensive DSLR's will have a 100% View Finder,

most have only 92-95%. With these it often happens that there juts something

into your Final Image because could not see it.

And destroying the sensitive Image Bordes can ruin the whole Image.

Therefore it May be useful to not scale the Camera Field of View to 100%

of the view Window, but leave a spall pace around to see if something

unwanted is dangerously near.

That surrounding "Save Frame" and Spaces from Aspect Ratio differences

Camera/View Window could be a bit darkened to make Field of View more sententiously.