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wish: option to show "always back" or "always front"


Tobias Kern

Question

hi,

it would be very usefull to setup a objekt with "always back"

or "always front" command.

if we move a objekt backwards it should be

laying one layer over the "always back"-objekts.

same with the "always front" objekts.

new drawed objekt should be one layer below the "always front"

objekts and same with moved to front objekts.

maybe this could be done if the basic construciton- or layout-layers

are out of the scratch separated in three under-layers.

1. always front (for overlaying objekt)

2. normal (for normal drawings)

3. always back (for underlaying objekts, for example: pictures, pdfs, ...)

this technic could reduce the layer-count in the layer-menu

cheers

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The thing I noticed is that there are more than one "back".

I use that object layering for visibility issues in plan view only, I do no layouts.

"Send to back" CMD+B of new drawn objects did not show the older objects.

I realized that doing CMD+B a couple of times showed them finally.

Strange, everything on one Layer.

Should not be related to class order as it is alphabetically and non controllable.

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While I like the concept, I am worried that it starts to make things very complicated to troubleshoot. I think we should also consider layer grouping (folders) or sublayers instead of this. Often send to front / send to back are used for other reasons other than stacking 2d elements (ie. they also affect 3d objects).

I suppose it could be as simple as an "always on top/bottom" checkbox in the OIP.

Kevin

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

I think either a combination of a checkbox displaying the stacking, or a prompt that offers to remove those stacking settings after the user changing stacking orders a few times in a row (Sort of a "frustration detection" idea for the UI some of us have been kicking around) may get around it.

I also initially felt it might become confusing, but there certainly seems to be enough desire for the feature to give it a good hard look.

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I see this causing so many problems. I do see offices using a design layer for Always front objects to solve this issue - which is a dissatisfying workaround.

Maybe it could be class controlled? Maybe certain classes could be set to have a Z value - like layers - so these special classes can be stacked to give a hierarchy.

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hi,

i often have problems with dimensions and ledger lines/guides,

they get overlapped so many times it draw new stuff.

if we could have invisible sublayers for all regular layers we could solve such problems

1. layer (invisible sublayer in the layer-menu) for dimensions (always first layer, unchangeable by user)

2. layer (invisible sublayer in the layer-menu) for ledger lines/guides (always second layer, unchangeable by user)

3. layer (invisible sublayer in the layer-menu) for all overlapping the regular drawings (set by user, if needed)

4. layer (visible in the layer-menu) for regular drawings

5. layer (invisible sublayer in the layer-menu) for all under the regular drawings (set by user, if needed)

so, we only have 2 options to define for our drawn stuff:

1 one up: to overlapping sublayer

2 nothing: (by default) the standard sublayer for regular drawings

3 one down: to underlaying sublayer

dimensions and guides are always above 1, 2 and 3

if we couln't have custom sublayers, please fulfill only the "dimensions

always front" wish!

cheers

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This makes me think there should be an "always on top" checkbox associated with a class instead of a layer. The groupings you're talking about are class definitions in my drawings (ie. class for dimensions). This might be a really good way to deal with this.

As a side note, personally I would never have a "sublayer" for dimensions because I never use dimensions in the design layers. Dimensions only occur in the annotations of Sheet Layer Viewports in my drawings because I model entirely in 3D in the Design Layers.

KM

Edited by Kevin McAllister
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You are right. It was poorly worded - coming from my web design side where z-value is a setting used to establish a visual hierarchy.

What I meant I think was just expressed more clearly - that this would be a class setting - where you could establish a hierarchy. I guess "Always On Top" could work and then it would just default back to object creation order for conflicts between objects both scheduled to be always on top.

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