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PVA - Jim

Vectorworks 2016

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I'm really glad stability improved so much between 2014 and 2015, then once again between 2015 and 2016. I'd like an entire release cycle to be all about stabilization and revamping problematic tools as well, but I also understand that the rest of the world isn't going to hold still and that any sales we make will just make the next release that much better, with greater resources behind it.

Got a little scary there around 2008-2009 (The software AND the economy was pretty weak in that era), but the huge turn things took after that renewed my faith entirely.

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NemV should stop developing Renderworks, integrate it into architect and make use of what's available to them. Connect the model to Cinema 4D and release ALL control to C4D. C4D is made for presentations and animations so why not take advantage of that? NemV is just doubling up on work.

I think one of the selling points of Vectorworks is that it DOES cover all of your bases. I can do my entire workflow in Vectorworks alone, and don't have to buy an additional $3500 program.

Vectorworks makes it cohesive and affordable, even if every component of the program isn't perfect (I agree that there are still things which desperately need attention).

Yes, it should ALSO allow you to smoothly integrate Cinema4D for more advanced rendering capabilities, but to stop developing Renderworks would be a disservice to a lot of users. My opinion as a small, independent designer is that Vectorworks is doing the right thing by developing all aspects of the program.

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btw RW

1.

Is the included Physical Renderengine already the one that make that big

speed bump (since R15 (?))

2.

Do the Materials work with the new Specular Layer System ?

I have Problems that C4D, since introduction of the new Specular Material System

which came with R16, always activates that specular channel, although I mostly

use only the diffuse/color channel in VW.

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2016 is multiple times slower than 2015 on my machine with the same file.

What specifically? This is rendering time or top/plan performance?

Also, make sure to include in your post or your signature your machine specs as I have below. Those will be important since the system requirements for 2016 are higher than for 2015.

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Polls will be back, currently I think only admins/mods can make them but that shouldn't be the case once we get things cleaned up and upgraded.

While we're on the topic of forums, are there plans for integration into external forum viewer apps? I use Tapatalk on my PC/Phone and is very helpful to see updated posts/topics without having to use a browser.

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If the one I submitted as a proposal is approved, it has a very good built in mobile interface, but includes specifically a Tapatalk plugin as well.

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I don't think one can illustrate the Door Stop in V-Works 2015, what about V-Works 2016?

PS

I've stopped using the short form VW as this does not seem to be a good allusion any longer.

;-)

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everything, even simply panning or zooming.

intel core i7-5930K CPU 3.50GHz 8 core

32 GB

windows 8.1 pro 64bit

X3 NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan X SLI

seems like i have enough power to run it.

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everything, even simply panning or zooming.

intel core i7-5930K CPU 3.50GHz 8 core

32 GB

windows 8.1 pro 64bit

X3 NVIDIA GeForce GTX Titan X SLI

seems like i have enough power to run it.

We don't have any testing done with SLI configurations unfortunately and Vectorworks can only use a single GPU currently. If you disable SLI entirely and only use a single card, does performance worsen or improve?

Do you have more than one display connected? If you disconnect all but one in conjunction with disabling SLI, what are the performance impacts?

Edited by JimW

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hmm, that seems counter intuitive. there are 3 displays connected.

i'll have to circle back around to do testing as i'm wrapped up in a few deadlines.

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hmm, that seems counter intuitive. there are 3 displays connected.

i'll have to circle back around to do testing as i'm wrapped up in a few deadlines.

Yeah its a weird concept. I come across it all the time in gaming as well. Non SLI-optimized software (Like Vectorworks) can perform MUCH worse on what should be superior hardware than it does on weaker hardware that doesn't employ SLI.

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I think one of the selling points of Vectorworks is that it DOES cover all of your bases. I can do my entire workflow in Vectorworks alone, and don't have to buy an additional $3500 program.

Surprisingly, I am in agreement with a VW/Cinema 4D workflow i.e. spend more time on developing the VW product and leave rendering to a 3rd party application.

Caveats are:

1) There is reliable and smooth pathway between the two

2) Basic presentation graphics still possible native within the program.

While the major new features do have promise, I was expecting more architectural improvements in 2016 and sadly, little has changed.

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Surprisingly, I am in agreement with a VW/Cinema 4D workflow i.e. spend more time on developing the VW product and leave rendering to a 3rd party application.

I completely disagree with this. ^^

VW should do what they can to improve the VW / C4D workflow, but I would stop using Vw tomorrow if they ever dropped Renderworks and instead expected me to buy Cinema4D just to get renderings. A license of either REVIT or ArchiCad would be less expensive than having to buy both Vectorworks Architect and Cinema 4D.

It's completely fine if that's your preferred workflow, but that is not the case for the rest of us. Nor should it have to be.

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^^ another strong agreement for leaving RW as part of the package.. not that NNA was necessarily contemplating this, but mandating the use of an external app to get rendering seems wrongheaded.. yes, better C4D round-tripping etc but I for one would be super disappointed if this occurred.

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Sorry Jim I should have been more specific. I'm referring to the Door Stop within a door frame; comme ca:

http://needleandmortar.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/400px-Frame_stops.png

+1

I want these stops within the door and window plugins. In theatre we build doors from scratch all the time. My drawings represent what is build down to the smallest detail and I always have to add real world details to the VW door plug in object.

KM

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I completely disagree with this. ^^

VW should do what they can to improve the VW / C4D workflow, but I would stop using Vw tomorrow if they ever dropped Renderworks and instead expected me to buy Cinema4D just to get renderings. A license of either REVIT or ArchiCad would be less expensive than having to buy both Vectorworks Architect and Cinema 4D.

It's completely fine if that's your preferred workflow, but that is not the case for the rest of us. Nor should it have to be.

Nothing against RW for VW.

Or better RW just a part of VW ArchLandDesign.

It is always better to render from your main application.

I think current feature set and quality of RW is more than enough in 95%.

(Of Course there is still missing a convenient way to bring your work out)

I even think meanwhile there are too much features in RW which will bring

too much complexity and problems for the standard VW user.

(Grass, Caustics, DOF, Displacement -> Render Times)

On the other hand will VW+RW never get as as powerful and usable as a true

3D App when Rendering (+Animation) is the main task.

So it is very important to get your whole CAD data and settings into such a

3D Package in a lossless manner.

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Revit has built in rendering for the basics.

Revit includes this in 1 price.

Revit to 3DMax is for advanced renderings/animation.

ArchiCAD has built in renderings for the basics.

ArchiCAD includes this in 1 price.

ArchiCAD to C4D is for advanced renderings/animation.

Vw should have built in renderings for the basics.

Vw should include this in 1 price.

Vw to C4D should be for advanced renderings/animation.

All I'm saying is, VW already has basic renderings which should still be kept in the software like Revit and ArchiCAD. I'm not saying remove all the existing rendering features, just don't charge us for it. People that do visualisations now have to pay twice for renderworks and c4d. If we don't buy Rw then we don't get ANY connection to c4d (as bad as it is). This is wrong.

Also, why is VW wasting time with advanced features. They should be concentrating on other more important issues. Generally, people that use Rw to render are merely using it for basic stuff (which Vw will always have) whereas others that are more serious about renderings use C4D for advanced rendering.

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If I've bought Renderworks and I've bought C4d I've paid for the same basic rendering engine twice. Even Adobe Illustrator users get the basic C4D render engine for free.....(ha I just realized the irony. As an Adobe subscriber I've actually paid for the same rendering engine 3 times.....)

The connection should be way better and bi-directional. I also think there should be an way to make the sheet layer viewport cache external (ie. a folder) so I can leverage C4D to do my VW rendering, freeing up VW so I can work in a different file at the same time...

KM

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It's completely fine if that's your preferred workflow, but that is not the case for the rest of us. Nor should it have to be.

I'm merely pointing out that I'd rather sacrifice the more advanced features of renderworks for more advanced architectural functionality, if given the choice.

And no, it's not my preferred workflow.

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Surprisingly, I am in agreement with a VW/Cinema 4D workflow i.e. spend more time on developing the VW product and leave rendering to a 3rd party application.

I completely disagree with this. ^^

VW should do what they can to improve the VW / C4D workflow, but I would stop using Vw tomorrow if they ever dropped Renderworks and instead expected me to buy Cinema4D just to get renderings. A license of either REVIT or ArchiCad would be less expensive than having to buy both Vectorworks Architect and Cinema 4D.

It's completely fine if that's your preferred workflow, but that is not the case for the rest of us. Nor should it have to be.

I totally agree with your disagreement and line of reasoning.

One of the reasons I switched to Vectorworks plus Renderworks was that a render in VW/RW took 5 minutes whereas a render of exactly the same thing drawn in AutoCAD took almost an hour.

Having to use a 3rd party application would be a waste of time in most cases for basic rendering especially if you cannot be sure you are reliably getting all objects into the 3rd party application or have to (re)apply textures etc. after each transfer.

Edited by Art V

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I'm not saying remove all the existing rendering features, just don't charge us for it. People that do visualisations now have to pay twice for renderworks and c4d. If we don't buy Rw then we don't get ANY connection to c4d (as bad as it is). This is wrong.

Well... if Renderworks would be part of the package so that we would not get charged for it... it still needs development which costs money. Guess what will happen, the price of Vectorworks with Renderworks as non-paid part of the package will probably increase with what we are paying now for Renderworks.

It would be better if the C4D connector plugin would be a paid option for those who do not want Renderworks because they are using C4D almost exclusively for renderings. Then the rest of us can still have the option of buying Renderworks if they don't want to use C4D or not buy it at all if they don't need 3D rendering.

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There are a lot of ways that we could go about it. Personally I'm in the "Integrate Renderworks into all Vectorworks software by default at no extra charge, and then dramatically improve export/send to C4D capability for advanced work." camp.

Ideally I would just like to see more of C4D's controls exposed directly in Vectorworks, but there are apparently a large number of licensing and legal issues completely separate from the complexity of integrating it from an engineering standpoint alone.

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