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MHBrown

Edit symbol must change

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This is not so much a wish as a demand. I like VW very much, but the way the edit symbol command has been altered is inexcusable. In versions before VW13, if you selected a symbol in a drawing and selected "Edit Symbol" you got a projection of the symbol as originally drawn. This is always in some orthographic view that allows you to easily switch between front, side and plan views. The way the symbol is created is always the way it is most easily edited. In VW13 this has changed. Now when you hit "Edit Symbol" it gives you the view as placed in the drawing. Often this is at some odd angle. VW recognizes this blunder by giving the embarrassingly ham-handed ability to straighten it up by hitting Top Plan. Fine, but when you go to any other projection it gives you projections as if you were still in the drawing. The worst thing about this unconscionable bug is that VW knows it is wrong (proven by the afore mentioned invoking of the Plan View) but decided it wasn't worth the trouble to finish the drill. Sure, I can go to the Resource Palette, scroll down, find the symbol, go to the pull down menu, select edit, and then edit as before. That is absurd. The real crime here is that it was better before. This is a case of where the newer version is less than the older one. Is that what Nemtschek wants? Fix it.

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To clarify, when I go to edit a symbol now in Vectorworks 2015 that has already been placed in the document:

Editing its 3D component when in a 3D view, keeps the same view.

Editing its 2D component snaps to top/plan view automatically and then upon exiting the editing mode, returns me to my previous view.

This behavior appears to be the same in Vectorworks 2012 as well, I do not see a difference currently between Vectorworks 2012, 2013 and 2015.

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MHBrown,

To edit a symbol in its current orientation, edit it in the drawing layers where it was inserted.

To edit a symbol in the orientation it was drawn, edit it from the Resource Browser (right click and choose Edit 2d Component or Edit 3d Component).

I use these different methods all the time. Each has it own advantages and disadvantages. And both methods are available when you need them.

(Jim, there is that terribly worded dialog that pops up the first time you edit something in rotated plan and switch to a true orthogonal view (ie. front). I've never been able to understand it and always choose the wrong option which then gets set forever....)

Kevin

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Thanks, to everyone's help. Jim W., it's very possible that I'm thinking of VW11 and not 2012. Regardless, it used to work the way I explained. Although in my 20 years of using MiniCAD/VectorWorks I've never once needed to edit a symbol in anything other than the orientation in which it was created, I'm certainly open to the idea that others need this flexibility. I'm curious if anyone has a quick case where this is helpful. I might find I could actually use it, too. Never too old to learn new tricks!

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There are times when editing the symbol in its actual position can be helpful. Especially if you are trying to align it to some other existing geometry. In which case one would edit the symbol with "show others while editing groups" would be selected.

But the fact remains that VW's handling of editing is messy and not consistent. Editing symbols has become more of pain than it used to be. Autohybrid creation is dangerous, and when using the above mentioned "show others" the showing of others does not take into account the depth of the edit (edit a symbol, edit the solid subtraction inside the symbol, edit the extrude that made up the solid subtraction...).

Perhaps we should be able to double click on a symbol and have the following dialog box:

"do you wish to edit the symbol inside the model space, or inside the symbol creation container?"

Model space would let you edit it as is, in the world, in the orientation.

Symbol creation container would be in the virtual space that the symbol parent exists, properly aligned, etc.

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My problem with Symbols is :

- the lag when I edit from browser

- the jumping highlight of Symbols when I edited them (don't now wich I had or want to edit)

- that the preview changes when setting included classes invisible

- that sometimes the OpenGL preview mode gives an empty preview for no reasons

- that the Symbol name in browser cuts for "-" only but not for the "_" that I use

- that I can't activate a Symbol in browser and ask to select all instances in file by right mouse click

- that I can't set Symbols in file to, at least optional, show all geometry grayed when only Symbol main class is set visible

- that I can't select f.e. Render Textures in browser, just because I was in a subfolder for Symbols, even if I could scroll to the top

Edited by zoomer

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MHBrown,

Not disagreeing with your main points, but an easier way to find symbols in the Resource Browser is to right-click on them and then select "Locate Symbol in Resource Browser." Alternatively, when I want to edit a symbol in it's original orientation, I activate the Symbol Insertion Tool (Option+0), use that tool's eyedropper mode (hold down Option while clicking on the desired symbol), and place a temporary copy of the symbol (at its original orientation...) for editing. This skips the RB altogether.

But I agree, when editing a rotated symbol in place and I get those little colored arrows at the lower left, it's all downhill from there, starting with having to wait for the "animated" rotation back to normal, and then the subsequently unrelated 3D views. Didn't we used to be able to turn off the "animated" rotation?...

Grant,

Yes, it would be great to be able to control how many levels up "Show other objects while in editing modes" is applicable for! And (maybe as a variation on what you're suggesting) the "Show other objects..." mode could control whether symbols are edited in their original or contextual orientation.

Zoomer,

Yes, the ability to find if/where all instances of a symbol are (without needing to create a report or use the Purge command...)!

And I gotta add my own... prior to VW2008, regardless of one's default symbol editing options, double-clicking on a 2D-Only symbol would take you to its 2D editing environment even if the current view is a 3D view, and vice versa, double clicking on a 3D-Only symbol would take you to its 3D editing environment, even if the current view is Top/Plan. I'm forever double-clicking on symbols and finding a blank screen...

VWIS048

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