Override Heliodon in viewport

[wivc]

Currently you cannot edit a Heliodon light in a viewport (via the Visualization Palette), except turn it on or off (you can for other types of lights).

The result/workaround is you have to set up multiple Heliodons on a design layer, which creates a lot of clutter.

It would make sense if you could create overrides for Heliodons.

[PVA - Jim]

Submitted.

VE-96871

[PVA - Jim]

That actually seems like it should work, but is broken. If it wasn't intended for Heliodons to be edited in this manner, then the Edit option shouldn't be available in the Visibility palette as it is here in my testing. Also, I just get an error chime but no message stating what went wrong or was done incorrectly.

Submitting this as an issue first, if it turns out the design was intentional I'll file it as a wishlist item.

[wivc]

This is the response I got from Michael Groves in N-VW tech support:

"In this case, this is not a bug. You can only control whether or not the Heliodon is on or off through the Visualization Palette. The Heliodon is designed to have multiple instances with different settings in a file. This allows you quickly switch between settings on the design layer and to turn on and off other instances of the Heliodon per viewport.

If you would like to submit a feature request, to allow the settings of a single Heliodon object to be edited through the Visualization Palette, please visit our Community Board. Here you can submit feature requests in the Wish List Request forum."

[PVA - Jim]

Wishlist item it is, then.

[zoomer]

Don't know if I got that right but I too don't like the Heliodon Symbol

in my Drawing.

I put it on an extra Class and switch it of to not accidentally edit it

or to influence the Viewport zoom to geometry.

But I think when the Heliodon is invisible it won't be used when

RW Rendering ?

I normally have one single Heliodon and see it as a part of the Environment

for the whole file.

Of course it is fine to have more than one, f.e. Day and Night settings

and be able to switch between these.

But I don't understand the need for different Environments for each

Layer.

I would like to set the Heliodon from the Visualization Pallete together

with the settings for all kind of lights at once.

The only way of editing the Heliodon I know is by selecting it in the

drawing and edit in the Info Palette.

[Tom Klaber]

It would be great if the Heliodon settings could be Overridden by viewports.  When setting up a series of shadow studies - you either have to have 9 heliodons - or go and change the setting and re-render the viewport.  Instead, you should be able to select the time of day and date from the viewport.  

[martinfdc]

This is a great wishlist item! I hope it gets implemented soon! I would also very much like to be able to override Directional Lights in Viewports... being able to change the Azimuth and Elevation.

[rDesign]

 

On July 23, 2014 at 6:01 AM, JimW said:

That actually seems like it should work, but is broken. If it wasn't intended for Heliodons to be edited in this manner, then the Edit option shouldn't be available in the Visibility palette as it is here in my testing. Also, I just get an error chime but no message stating what went wrong or was done incorrectly.

Submitting this as an issue first, if it turns out the design was intentional I'll file it as a wishlist item.

 

On July 23, 2014 at 8:26 AM, wivc said:

This is the response I got from Michael Groves in N-VW tech support:

"In this case, this is not a bug. You can only control whether or not the Heliodon is on or off through the Visualization Palette. The Heliodon is designed to have multiple instances with different settings in a file. This allows you quickly switch between settings on the design layer and to turn on and off other instances of the Heliodon per viewport.

If you would like to submit a feature request, to allow the settings of a single Heliodon object to be edited through the Visualization Palette, please visit our Community Board. Here you can submit feature requests in the Wish List Request forum."

 

I don't fully agree with Tech Support's assessment that this is not a bug.

 

As JimW pointed out, (1) if the Visibility Palette Heliodon control is meant only as 'On - Off', then (2) the Edit button should not be available and (3) there should not be an error chime without message. Parts 2 & 3 are either bugs or very poor UI design implementation.

[PVA - Jim]

I don't agree either, but unfortunately "Designed Wrong" isn't yet a status I can assign to these. For now it has to go in as a wishlist item. If I put it in as a bug again, it will simply be bounced. That may change, but for now I go the route that has a chance of getting what is needed.

[Matt Overton]

7 hours ago, JimW said:

I don't agree either, but unfortunately "Designed Wrong" isn't yet a status I can assign to these. For now it has to go in as a wishlist item. If I put it in as a bug again, it will simply be bounced. That may change, but for now I go the route that has a chance of getting what is needed.

 

To be fair it was a good design at the time but you wouldn't do it that way now.

[AlanW]

Again maybe I am missing something I right click on the Heliodon i want in the Visualisation Pallet and force select, i edit as required then click the Sheet on the Nav sheet layer and i am back to the viewport. I can have multiple ones in the design layer but switch them on and off in the Vis pallet.

[Matt Overton]

11 hours ago, Alan Woodwell said:

Again maybe I am missing something I right click on the Heliodon i want in the Visualisation Pallet and force select, i edit as required then click the Sheet on the Nav sheet layer and i am back to the viewport. I can have multiple ones in the design layer but switch them on and off in the Vis pallet.

 

We only generally have about a dozen common times of the year we render with. So I've found Classes work better than the visualization palette as classing will persist in symbol instances that can be pulled out of the library.

 

[AlanW]

Matt, I too use classes for each of my studies. 9am Noon & 3pm, certainly easier to deal with.

[_James]

Did this ever come to fruition?

[Matt Overton]

On 6/3/2020 at 11:47 PM, _James said:

Did this ever come to fruition?

 

A few pieces to the puzzle turned up over the years but like Viewport styles its been dangling as what seems like low hanging fruit left on the tree.

[line-weight]

I've just had one of those mornings where I've basically been doing unpaid testing for vectorworks, because that's the only way I am going to get semi-predictable results using the heliodon tool. My conclusions at the moment:

 

1) Just don't even think about touching any settings in the visualisation pallete when dealing with viewports. The over-rides here, for switching lights on and off, just seem completely unreliable.

2) Instead from now on I'm going to control which heliodons are on and off by class and by class only (as @Matt Overton suggests above).

3) So the heliodons are "always on" where they are sitting on whatever design layer they live on (I have a dedicated "lighting" layer). Each has its own class, and it's that class that gets turned on or off per viewport.

4) There's another bug which I don't know if it's been noted before: if you change a heliodon's class in the OIP, it doesn't actually change its class. Look in the visualisation palette, against that particular heliodon, and you'll see in the "class" column that it is still in its previous class. This caused me much confusion until I realised this, because I'd put the heliodon in the class I want, turn that class on in the viewport where I want it, but the heliodon would not be active. So, if you want to change a heliodon's class, it seems you have to activate the class, then create a new heliodon with all the same settings.

 

One of the biggest problems I have with heliodons is that I change the sun brightness, but it doesn't take effect, or causes unpredictable results, usually being brighter than expected. I now wonder if what has actually been happening is that there are actually duplicate heliodons active, even though the vis palette says there are not. Anyway, I'm now implementing a strict "by class only policy" and will see if this helps at all.