Fix the tape measure tool

[Bruce Kieffer]

I'm in front view in a 3D drawing and I want to measure the height of a countertop relative to the bottom edge of the cabinet base. The tape measure tool should be able to do this, but sadly it cannot. Of course the reason is even though I see front view as a 2D view, Vectorworks sees it as 3D so when I use the tape measure tool it snaps to the base further back in space and then gives me an angular measurement, not a plumb measurement which is what I need. Please see my attached screen shot. The measurement (what I need to know) is really 35-3/4". The tape measure tool says 35.964". It's totally useless to me. Give us a WYSIWYG setting or modifier for the views our eyes see as 2D, but Vectorworks sees as 3D.

[Kevin McAllister]

+1

VW has a lot of trouble in this type of view generally, especially with snaps. Its often impossible to drag something along the associated 2d plane without having it grab onto a snap forward or backward of that plane, moving it in 3d space as well. This is the main reason I still keep things set to screen plane even after all this time..... and why the screen plane / layer plane idea is such a fail.

Kevin

[Bruce Kieffer]

Kevin,

You had to bring up the screen plane/layer plane mess, didn't you!

Ok, I'm calm again! Back to the tape measure mess. My workaround, and I should not have to do this, is to draw a rectangle to get a measurement, then delete the rectangle. Just more time and clicking.

[AndiACD]

+another1!

Definitely, the Tape should ALWAYS follow perfectly plumb lines unless dictated by the user, and in IMHO, only then creep "Into" the drawing if asked to.

[Christiaan]

I ran into the same issue Bruce:

https://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=199113

In the long term perhaps screen plane needs to be deprecated.

In the short term the Measure Tape needs more intelligence to know what it's measuring (perhaps it should default to layer plane whenever the user is in 3D view?) and at the very least the user needs an alert when activating the Tape Measure tool when they are in a 3D view while Screen Plane is active. (I've submitted a enhancement request along these likes)

[Bruce Kieffer]

Christiaan, Thanks for the link to your similar issue.

I'm going to switch my plane options to screen only. I think that will ease my frustrations with more than just the tape measure tool, but that does not mean I concede that it is OK in it's present form.

[Kevin McAllister]

I personally think the problem here is with snaps. If the snaps worked properly the tape measure would give an accurate measurement. VW needs more intelligent snapping. Even C4D has more intelligent snapping (2D, 2.5D and 3D settings). As Bruce says, many of us think of a true view (ie. front, side) as 2d because that's the way we were taught (ie. everything is projected onto a plane of glass). We switch into it for a specific purpose.

Kevin

[ChadL]

+1

I have had the same problem also, Usually I just us the line tool to do the measurements.

[PVA - Admin]

I think the problem is with snapping as well, in Top/Plan the snapping is able to refer to the object stacking order to determine priority for snapping to certain points.

In front/left/right/back a user would almost (as far as I have ever seen) want to measure from any point in the foreground to any point further "back" from the screen. This happened/happens when drawing in those views with things like 3d polygons and NURBS as well, it snaps way off in the distance while looking totally right until checked in an isometric view.

When the tape measure tool is used in isometric, it is actually easier to get the snap points you expect, but I have seen that the user will more often enter an elevation view to get these measurements.

Often its REALLY obvious that the measurement is way off (45 feet where it should have been 9 feet)and then the user would be able to catch it, which is still bad but sometimes it is only off by a slight amount (From the front side of a walls top to the opposite side of a walls bottom, adding an errant 3"-8") and missing that early on would lead to much bigger problems down the line. Needs to be addressed.

Submitting issue now.

[VincentCuclair]

Actually there is a setting that fixes this, after you select the tape measure tool but before you make the first click, make sure the last option in the snap palette is active, i think it is called snap to plane, this will 'lock' the tape measure tool to the screen plane thus reporting the correct measurement. I have on countless occassions pointed out that this is very tedious and also that the default setting of unchecked for the snap to plane returns as soon as you change the view which means this setting needs to be set each time you use the tape measure tool in this way......something needs to be streamlined here don't know what, either the snapping or the tool need to be changed.......

[PVA - Admin]

Agreed. Especially for something like the tape measure tool, its intended as a quick and easy way to get a fast measurement, having to mentally track all kinds of sub-settings negates a lot of its utility.

[Bruce Kieffer]

Vincent,

Please post a screen shot of the setting you refer to. Thanks.

[VincentCuclair]

Sorry, not at work, but it is the snap to working plane seen here as a little pink grid:

https://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=28533&Number=182197#Post182197

Edited July 15, 2014 by Vincent C

[Christiaan]

I'm going to switch my plane options to screen only.

i think it is called snap to plane, this will 'lock' the tape measure tool to the screen plane thus reporting the correct measurement.

Judging by Bruce's screenshot it's layer plane he needs, not screen plane.

[Christiaan]

Sorry, not at work, but it is the snap to working plane seen here as a little pink grid:

https://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=28533&Number=182197#Post182197

Never seen that before.

[Christiaan]

There's another behaviour that's symptomatic of this need for improved snapping in VW. Say you have a 3D polygon that represents ground level and a bunch of 3D shapes that represent buildings. If you're in top/plan view and start reshaping the ground level 3D polygon by snapping to the corners of your buildings what it will do is shift the vertices of the 3D polygon up to the top edge of the building instead of staying in the same plane. So when you switch back to a 3D view you will see your ground has a whole bunch of peaks where it's snapped to the tops of your buildings!

[Bruce Kieffer]

Snap to working plane appears in the snaps palette when you are in a 3D view (at least one Vectorworks sees as 3D!). I see it when I open a new document, but not in my document that I'm working on. I'm not sure how to activate it in that document?

Just found it. I have to have Layer Plane on. I want to scream! It still doesn't make the tape measure tool work like I think it should.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Bruce Kieffer