Details generated from the 3D Model

[Joe-SA]

In searching the archives it looked like the topic of details created by the model hadn't really been discussed lately and I wanted to to know what solutions others are using with the current state of the program.

Our work is mainly Period Style Residential Design. We've been modeling crown assemblies along our eaves and rakes with EAP's. We are using Wall Components and stretching the sheathing and siding components down over the floor slab and up to the roof line while keeping the stud component between base and top plates. Using components in the floor slabs. We model our Roof by creating our own Roof Components with stacked Roof Objects so we can extend sheathing out to the drip line while stopping the framing at the bearing line and drywall at the inside face, etc. We are creating ledges in our foundation walls with multi-component wall styles and dropping one component down as needed. We have footing wall styles. Foundations and Footings are controlled by class to allow us to either hatch or dash based on display in plan, section, or elevation without additional drafting. We can generate fairly complete detailing directly off these models with Sheet Layer Viewports and when pulled off an overall Building Section with a Detail Viewport its even auto-numbered. When we want to make a change to a skirt board or a crown assembly we can change the profile in one or more EAP's (why are these not symbol based) and all the elevations, building sections and details can reflect that change with a simple regeneration of the viewports. Beautiful right?

First, the Out Of Memory error and crashes that occur whenever we try to regenerate a series of these viewports make the approach nearly unworkable.

Second, it is quite cumbersome moving in and out of Annotations layers to add overlay graphics and notes?even between common scaled details on the same sheet. We still need to add Detail Wood Sections, Linear Material PIO's, hatches, some line weight profiling, etc. Its one thing to do this layer by layer but detail by detail is too much. At times we created a single overlay viewport and drafted all overlay graphics for all the details in a single Annotations layer. Not an ideal work around and any shift or sheet change of a detail required a separate cut and paste or shift inside this separate Annotations layer.

Third, we first started doing these detail sheets by cropping down Section Viewports. Vertical breaks were made by duplicating the viewport and adjusting the crop. We would often have 2, 3, or even 4 individually cropped viewports making a single Wall Section detail?.each with their own Annotations Layer and each needing to be regenerated with the slightest change to the model. The promise of the Detail Viewport when introduced fell flat when no ability for Break Lines was included. We didn't really want to individually reference and title each vertical break of our wall section. We tried to use some hybrid of Detail Viewports and duplicate Section Viewports in order to keep the auto-numbering but in the end it was more trouble then it was worth and the Detail Viewport wasn't even worth using in most cases.

Fourth, we still needed to create some details that were not linked to the model. Sometimes we drafted these on Sheets inside annotations layers but typically wanted to draft these on Design Layers and viewport them into sheets. The problem here was not being able to edit these details while seeing their relationship to the surrounding details on the sheet to avoid any accidental overlap. In the days before Sheet Layers details of all scales could be displayed on a collection of Design Layers at the same time so each could be edited in context of the other sheet contents. Now we are seemingly caught in limbo.

Hope for a solution came with the introduction of Design Layer Viewports. Surely all this mess would be fixed by moving model based details to the Design Layers.

Fifth, when first introduced there was no option to 'flatten' DLVP's. Being only 3D models or plans it was a non-starter. Now that we can display in 2D flattened sections you would think DLVP's creating Details on Design Layers would now work... but no. The graphic quality of the DLVP's do not match what can be achieved in SLVP's. So much so that I consider DLVP details only suitable as underlying guides with all or nearly all of the detail created in 2d over top of the model. In the 2014 SP3 release notes it lists many improvements to 'flattened' DLVP's but in my first tests they are still not good enough to change my mind here.

Sixth, since DLVP's have no Annotations layer and do not reside on SHEETS we have lost our ability to Auto-Number our details linking plan cuts or reference bubbles directly to their sheet if they are created via a DLVP.

I have been struggling with details generated largely or even mostly from the model on the Sheet Layers with pretty good printed results even considering the hassles it took to get there. It is difficult to justify this method, however, when fellow coworkers of mine wish to abandon it.

I have one coworker who has taken to complete 100% 2D drafting of his details on Design Layers. Once the initial outline is found with the model then no further link to the model is continued even as an underlayment. The promise of revisions happening to one object being reflected in detail after detail throughout the set is lost in favor of the speed of layer management and predictability of the 2D drafted detail. Revisions are made old school?one detail at a time. Its currently very difficult to argue against this approach. So much for the promise of integrated 2D and 3D drawing down to the detail level.

I'm curious how others see this topic, what the state of their current use is, and what we see as the future goals both short-term (next release) and long-term.

Joe

[Joe-SA]

Wishlist of improvements that could solve much of these issues:

1) Fix the Out of Memory crash issue.

2) Create 'Live' sections that update along with the revision that is taking place in the model. These could crunch in the background similar to Renderworks views.

3) Add Break Lines to Detail Viewports. Give us the ability to define break quadrants and the area to be removed. The Viewport would then 'zip' the detail to the desired display. I believe rival programs have something similar.

4) Give us a new edit mode for SLVP's. Similar to how we can now edit Symbol in place while seeing the context of the rest of the model...give us the choice when editing a SLVP to either go to the Design Layer (current method) or an Edit View where all of the Design Layers linked in the SLVP become visible but the rest of the SHEET is also still visible as a grayed background. This not only would improve the coordination of Design Layer and Sheet Layer details when they exist next to each other but could perhaps allow all overlay graphics and notes to be created on Design Layers and not in Annotations at all. This would improve the drafting while preserving the Auto-Numbering. Maybe this is just as simple as making all Annotations Layers automatically part of the Design Layer list with gray view of the SLVP in the middle. (I actually got this idea while typing the first three so it needs some flushing out. I think there is something there, however.)

Joe

Edited May 9, 2014 by Joe-SA

[digitalcarbon]

this is how you can get details from your model, roof and all. you have to know when to use parametric objects and when not to use them and if you do use them, how to use them.

[JoshW]

if you're going to use simple extrudes to generate your 3d geometry, you're better off just using sketchup.

simple push pull extrudes eliminate most of the advantage that a smart program is supposed to give you. If you just use sketchup you wouldn't even need to draft 2d elements on top of your elevations to get hatching!!

[Joe-SA]

this is how you can get details from your model, roof and all. you have to know when to use parametric objects and when not to use them and if you do use them, how to use them.

Nice video and nice modeling. I have viewed that before. However, my post had far less to do with the nature of creating the model and far more to do with what happens there after with the use of Section Viewports, Detail Viewports, Annotations Layers, SLVP's, DLVP's, break lines in details, Auto-Numbering, etc. Your video doesn't address those concepts.

We've debated this before in a different thread but I also disagree (as I described above) that parametric tools can not be used to create models that can generate details. I've done it with what I believe to be a very high level use of the parametric tools (walls, slabs, roof objects, etc) and would like to do it more. The impediment is not the parametric modeling tools but the presentation tools.

Joe

Edited May 12, 2014 by Joe-SA

[jmartinarch]

As a new user I am curious about strategies employed for detailing. Obviously an advantage exists in extracting pieces from the model as opposed to re-creating as a 2d or 3d separate detail. But I think all offices big projects or small have many details that get recycled. ADA compliance details, toilet room accessories, ?. foundation stem walls and footings etc. As an autocad user I have all of these in a detail folder and pull them to my current file,compose a sheet and tweak them if necessary. I like having them in same file for ease of printing.

I'm sure this method is used VW users too, right??

Or would that just not be good use of VW?