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Mattheng

Out of Memory bug on OpenGL Animation

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I've been using vectorworks for decades and 2014 has got to be the worst stable release I've ever used. I use to get the out of memory error a couple of times a day but now its at least 50 times a day without exaggeration. My patience is really starting to run out. I spend more time quiting and restarting then I do working.

Jim as you mentioned, I know its not my machine, I have an older 12 core MacPro with a ton of ram.

I get the out of memory error when I'm rendering viewports on a sheet using custom renderwork settings. If I do any work what so ever and then try rendering, it wastes my time pretending its rendering, only to have the rendering to show up all black. If I try saving after that, I get the out of memory error, if I try to update the viewport again, vectorworks just crashes. The only way I can get anything to render, is to quit, and then do the render right after a fresh restart. Its just ridiculous to expect us pros to have this kind of workflow. There better be a fix for this ASAP or I am done with VW. I can not continue to work this way if you are telling me that I have to wait for 2015 to get this corrected.

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It is happening for many users, but its not expected behavior or across the board for everyone.

If you can send me one of the files you're having the problem in (to tech@vectorworks.net) we can have a look and see what can be done. Much of the time there is something that can be done to work around the problem until the real solution arrives.

Edited by JimW

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Jim, I appreciate you wanting to help me out, but I am very apprehensive about sending my files out for various reasons. Like I mentioned, I am a seasoned veteran when it comes to Vectorworks and have constantly had to learn various work arounds to get by, so I kinda already know what my problem is. Every year as computers get more and more powerful, I slightly increase the detail and complexity of my models. Vectorworks is just not keeping up with the times. This software should have been 64bit at least 5 years ago. My work and my expectations have exceeded the capabilities of this software, which just shouldn?t be the case. I am very proficient at creating the least amount of geometry as possible and creating the smallest textures to get my desired result. Telling me to further simplify the complexity or reducing the number of lights, etc? is not an option I am willing to hear. This is the detail I require, This is the detail I want!, and I know other software can handle it.

This Out of Memory error is not new. Sure if you are doing basic 2d plans or some basic 3d work you will rarely see it, but if you want to do anything serious and use the advanced features, the limits of the software get reached very quickly. This year, I wanted to start incorporating some basic animation using vectorworks archaic animation tools but I can?t even get into the dialog boxes without getting an out of memory error, that is unless I?m using wireframe.

I am not sure who makes the decisions around there and maybe I am just not there target market anymore. It just appears that they want to be everything to everybody but they end up doing nothing well. I mean this in the most extreme way, I feel like I am using software from the 90?s as basic stuff is missing.

64 Bit - Accessing less than 2GB of ram on machines that have 256GB

Texture Mapping - Not being able to have independent x/y scale (stretching) Really????

Any of the tools like railings, doors, windows, cabinets - I don?t use any of them. Who in this day and age would use blocks and cylinders to represent their railings in 3D. These tools should be more dynamic to accept user profiles or symbols. For e.g.. for the railing tool, you should be able to enter profiles for both the top rail and bottom shoe and select a user made symbol for the spindles.

Animation tools - Do I need to even say anything

Baseboard or moulding tools - MIA

I can go on and on but I think you see my point and I think I am just getting overly frustrated.

If whom ever is in charge over there does not think this a big problem or that they can continue taking their time correcting this, they are sadly mistaken. This software is quickly becoming unusable.

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Those features are indeed coming(Other than Animation of actual geometry, I do not think that is a priority at the moment. If you mean a replacement for Create Animation, that is definitely coming) but in order to get long-standing issues fixed, engineering asks me for example files that exhibit the issue.

If we can analyze what you are experiencing, there is a greater chance of the problems you are encountering being fixed faster.

If I cant get a file where the issue always occurs, identify the specific problem and report it to engineering, it may never be corrected or take significantly longer to be corrected.

If I just go back to engineering saying "memory usage is lame" I wont get a fix, even though it seems like those problems are obvious, they are not. They all have very specific causes and somethings issues that seem related have nothing to do with each other. This is only confirmable with example files along with my reports.

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Thanks Jim. If what you are saying, that ALL of the things I mentioned are coming, is true, you have made my day, no my decade. Let me tell you, having you on these boards has got to be the best decision they have ever made. I truly appreciate your answers.

Although, animating geometry would be awesome, I completely understand that it is not a priority and I am not expecting that soon. Yes, at this point, I am just looking for the creation and editing of animations to get a complete UI and methodology overhaul.

I completely understand your position of "how can I get them to fix something without a file". Like I said, I've had this problems for years on ALL my files. I've just found work arounds to get things done. With 2014 its just become unbearable. I believe this is more common than you think, its just most people, such as myself, do not have the time to go on unmonitored forums to help fix software that they paid for (this is my first time). The only reason I am doing so now, is because you are here and I get the feeling that there is a remote chance that someone will actually listen. If I believe my input will actually improve things, I am willing to put in some of my time for the vectorworks community.

My problem sending files has to do with legal issues. What happens to my designs? I have spent years creating my own detailed symbols and textures. Who gets access to this stuff? Will I find the symbols I created for sale on the Vectorworks store? I know that is far fetched but I have no legal agreement stopping you or whom ever else from doing just that. I could be wrong though, Do you guys have some sort of agreement that would protect my work?

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All the files that come into tech support are destroyed after the case is over. If the file goes to engineering, it remains attached to the case it was submitted to so that engineers and other employees internally can work with it to try and replicate/cause/fix problems, and I believe is destroyed after one or two versions. However if the file is sensitive, we normally submit a small portion of the file that exhibits the issue.

I would certainly not recommend you upload the files publicly here on the forums if they are of a sensitive nature, since anyone can download them in this manner. Normally we have users email them to us (all tech emails are destroyed within 1-3 months purely due to storage concerns, whether they have files attached or not) and then we delete them once the issue is resolved.

More recently, users have uploaded them to their own Dropbox/Google Drive/cloud-storage-of-choice and sent us a download link, which they can kill at any time and the file is then still deleted from our machines after the case is over.

I can not speak to legal agreements at all, but that is just a restriction placed on me by our company practices. Since I am not part of our legal staff, I am not permitted to get into any specifics of that publicly or privately. I don't feel this is intended to be malicious or secretive, just a precautionary measure on management's part which I do agree with.

I can however tell you that the utmost care is taken to protect user privacy, both of their personal identities and their intellectual property. Any time I want to use a file we have seen from a user, I get express written permission from the user to do so and there is a lengthy approval process internally so that our managers make sure all legal bases are covered before we use them.

If anyone here was found to be selling user content, I am pretty sure they'd toss us out a window.

If you want to see about getting some real legalese answers on our protection practices, go ahead and email me a request and I'll get you a response from the proper people here.

(Wow that post got longer than expected...)

Edited by JimW

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Thanks Jim,

If you are assuring me that my work will strictly be used for debugging and will be completely destroyed thereafter and in no way will any of my work be distributed without my permission, I will send you a file sometime next week. I just don't have the time today to go through one and document reproducible errors.

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BIG Vote from me also for 64 bit!!!!!!!!

The RAM limitation is a major problem for me also.

Wish you could give us an estimated delivery date of 64 bit..

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If I could I would. I am working to make as much information about major product changes such as 64bit as public as possible, as early as possible.

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FWIW I will add my 2 cents, I am trying (have been trying) to render a file for a week, getting out of memory every 5-10mins. It appears to be related to textures so now trying to turn some off. This file consists of a small Site Model, 50 trees, some tex beds. 20-30 3d symbols not much more. Is this too much for VW?

Seems like it is.

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Depends on the complexity of those objects. Normally 50 trees would be fine, but if they are 50 trees and 30 symbols with 50,000 polys each, or thousands of vertices each, it can run into problems.

For instance, I have a file with 1 tree that can't even render in Vectorworks, as the tree is 1,372,000 3D polygons. In contrast I have a file with upwards of 5,000 trees that runs like a dream, since each tree is composed of a handful of NURBS surfaces.

Most commonly now what I see is geometry imported from 3rd party libraries composed of thousands of smaller objects. This will be mitigated significantly with the advent of 64bit and access to all your machine's memory, but its still a good idea to reduce their complexity as far as possible if it isn't necessary.

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Vectorworks would be smart to provide new, updated, and more complete symbol libraries. Because some of the existing libraries are very old, and because so much of what we need is lacking, we are pretty much forced to find and download symbols from wherever we can find them, mostly from SU based stuff which are almost always high poly count monsters...

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