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Railing shouldn't follow nosing of oblique treads


Christiaan

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This is a classic programming-without-thinking-about-the-architecture error, in that the railing algorithm is simply set to follow the hosings of the stairs (or something like that).

This isn't by any means the only thing wrong with this algorithm but it's a good clear example of how it doesn't produce the right results.

In case it isn't clear the railing shouldn't dip down suddenly to follow the nosing of the oblique bottom tread. In this case the railing would typically continue straight, ignoring the oblique tread.

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=9996&filename=stair-railing.png

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While you're at it Jim, it would also be useful to be able to control the transition from guardrail to handrail on the same stair side based on the stairs flight.

Example; sometimes a "U" or "L" shaped stairs side will go from being open to below (requiring a guardrail) and then the next flight turn will be adjacent to a wall (requiring a handrail).

Currently we can only control either a handrail or a guardrail per side for the entire stair PIO.

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Wouldn't the best solution be to have a really well thought-out rail tool with custom settings that can be saved in the RB preferably.

And then be able to 'apply' these rails to separate parts of the stair/slab edge/retaining walls/roof edges/3D object edges etc.

Basically any edge.....and preferably with an option to offset horizontally and/or vertically.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Do you think that the handrails and guardrails for stairs should actually be a completely separate tool? Not embedded in the stair settings?

Similar to Handrail (but with WAY more customization settings, Handrail is very limited at the moment), but designed to be applied/attached to a stair object after customization?

Edited by JimW
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Well to start off with, they should definitely be linked either way.....

Second, if the railing tool really could handle most thinkable situations absolutely!

Thirdly, if the railing tool would work in the way I described it shouldn't be too hard to program the stair tool to let the user apply different custom rail setups for the different sides of the stair (in a way it already works like (though I don't know what part of the stair geometry it is related to at the moment)).

(I imagine that placing the 'future' rail tool object would function like this:

1. Create the rail setup and save.

2. Select the rail setup to apply then select the geometry edges to apply the rail to (this could work similarly to the way we currently select edges to fillet, or perhaps with a marquee.)

Obviously the rail tool would need options to adjust bottom and top in different ways, ie if all the step sides of a stair are selected and the bottom of the rail follows the steps an option is needed for the top of the rail to be simply sloped instead of stepped.

Similarly we would like to be able to have custom handrail/post/etc profiles.

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I'm thinking a separate tool to the stair tool for the following reason:

As Vincent has pointed out, Stairs often lead up to a terrace or balcony and you want to continue the rail at the landing/top of stair around the outside of the terrace/balcony.

Alternatively, a way of accurately joining sections of railings together (think wall component join tool) for stair rails to other rails.

Edited by Kizza
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Yeah and 3D modelling a rail takes a lot of time,

This is one of my pet hates with VW. It should be a cake walk to create a "Perfect" stair rail with something like the EAP tool, but despite improvements, easy isn't one of the best words to use to describe it. It's still not easy to edit simple shapes to perfect paths.

i know it's not what this discussion is about, but basic tools should have been perfected by now.

Would also mean the fear of having to struggle or loose time working to resolve a hand rail correction, would not create an obstacle.

IMHO

Andrew

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Similarly we would like to be able to have custom handrail/post/etc profiles.

Should read:

Similarly we NEED to have custom handrail/post/etc profiles. (and panels such as glass)

Thinking about this more, I think the NEW handrail tool should be editable in both path (elevational) and profile to be able to overcome any baneful irregularities such as the one Christiaan posted above. Also, a railing Send to Surface to ensure all balusters connect with the stair or landing, particularly at transitions?

Edited by Kizza
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Take a look at this recent stair:

I modeled it instead of using the stair and handrail tool because I no longer have any hair left to pull out.

Yeah, here's one I did as an Auto-Hybrid, guess what took most time (and it's not even that complicated.....)

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=10023&filename=Sk%E4rmavbild%202013-12-12%20kl.%2011.12.14.png

Well Jim, see what you unleashed :grin: give us a hand and we want the whole arm!

(I've always said: the first CAD program to have an excellent stair tool will be the best CAD program there is, basically because essentially the problems that exist in a stair tool encompass all problems you'll encounter in a building (from a programmers point of view).

Edited by Vincent C
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