Interior Cad

[Patrick Gilbert]

Are any of you using Interior Cad ?

I'am considering purchasing this program and would like to hear from anyone using it.

I'm concerned that it has the integration necescary for real world manufacturing.

Thanks

Patrick

[MKMAY]

Patrick

I'm a beta tester

I,ve been useing it since May of this year

was named interiorworks.

Has alot of neat stuff includeing Excel export

but does require some customizing at this time

New beta will be released sometime this winter

and hopefully will be released on the market in the spring for VW10.

This product will change alot for the cabinet makers. check it out everyone I've designed alot of cabinets with the beta all ready and it will speed up the designing and costing times greatly.

Beta Tester since May 2002

Get ready for a great add-on

MKM

[Patrick Gilbert]

Hi Mkm

Could you answer some questions?

1 How does the estimating portion of Interior Cad Work?

Does the estimating portion allow the user to attach labor to each piece for example if a piece has edge banding on it does the Interior cad attach labor to the piece for edge banding to that piece?

Or do you just assign pricing to a cabinet?

2 Will the estimate be separate or will it integrate to the job if it turns into a job?

3 Is Interior Works parametric on all items or just on the angled cabinet they use to show off Interior Works?

4 Does Interior Works put something out that could be used by a 3rd party nesting program such as Cad code?

5 Cad code requires that the dxfs be in a layered format will Interior Cad do that? If not will Interior Cad out put in an mdb (access format) or an excel format? Cad code will work with either of these? What is the estimated time before the cnc portion will be out?

6 Are there any cnc users that use Interior Cad in Germany? If there is how do they use Interior Cad with the cnc equipment? In the U.S. a lot of use a cnc router instead of saws and a ptp not sure if that is the case with Germany?

Pat

[ccroft]

This looks like a great product and I've been keeping an eye on it for a year or two.

I have another question....how much will it cost? I noticed their optimizer was around $1000 (if I did my euro conversion right). Might be pricy!

[Patrick Gilbert]

I think around $1000.00 for Interior Works.

I'm concerned because it is too cheap?

Most other packages that have similiar capability are around 25-40k?

Pat

[ccroft]

I think that 1,000 would be great for the base module. Cabinetware and 20/20 start at around $6,000 for the design module and increment up to around $15,000 with rendering,parts lists,estimating and cnc modules (not sure if 20/20 has estimating and cnc).That's in Canada and it's way too much money for our shop.

I think it would be great if they adopted this modular set-up. And bear in mind that the real cost of InteriorWorks would include your investment in v-works, which would double the cost for a new user. The beauty is that you get vectorworks too. I know a few kitchen designers who can't draw in 20/20 what I can in vectorworks. And you can't beat it as a 2D layout tool.

I don't think that $1,000 is too cheap for a suite of 5 of 6 plug-ins. The estimating part isn't that complicated either.

BTW, I think that for estimating edge-banding it's more useful to have a total length for the job and apply a per foot price. More accurate, flexible (what if they want 1/4" fir edge?) and plus you know how much of the stuff you need to complete the job. Very useful if it's a hard-to-get 3mm PVC.

Nice to see some cabinet people on the board! I've been using v-works in the shop for about 3 years.

[Ray Libby]

I do shop drawings for high end cabinet companies in the Chicago area and I would love to exchange drawings, techiniques, etc. Emails for people on the board don't seem to be displayed so here is mine.

raylibby@mindspring.com

PS. Minicad / Vectorworks user since 1994

[Patrick Gilbert]

I looked at Interior Cad via a net demo and the phone(cant wait to see my phone bill for a 2 hour call to germany) I have to admit it looks very impressive.But the difference between the big packages and the smaller ones seems to be in cnc integration and the ability to handle all the wierd stuff we have to build for the commercial market.But they really do have a very good start on it but will have to see if they really do come out with cnc capablity as for us this is a must.

The other question in my mind is that the software has to really work ie accurate cut lists or cnc output, Not a small thing.

I cant help but wonder if the woodworking software is about to go though a evolution to the next level. I remember when the only software for accounting was big bucks and then quickbooks came out and did almost the same processes for under $200.00. Will have to see. Spent too much money on software in the past that fell well short of expectations to want to jump to any conclusions.

Pat

[ccroft]

Hey Pat

Maybe you need to take a trip to Germany to see this thing in action!

"Spent too much money on software in the past that fell well short of expectations...." Do I smell Autocad/Pattern Systems? That didn't work too well for the shop I was in 8 years ago. Autocad is great for designing space shuttles, but it's a little much for our needs.

I think prices will fall as the market grows and new packages start to compete. I've been able to do estimating, parts lists, material lists and more using the existing features of Vectorworks: a library of symbols,worksheets, records and vectorscript.No cnc, but the parts lists are 100% accurate as long as I input the right stuff. This is only for the basic casework, and I can't imagine another shop using it, but it's free...except for the hours and hours I spent figuring it out. I think the big money goes into making a program that's easy to understand, easy to use and easy to customize.

I didn't know there was a solution for commercial millwork that will handle such things as curved reception counters easily. What is that one called?

[Patrick Gilbert]

Maybe you need to take a trip to Germany to see this thing in action!

If that is what it takes I'm willing

"Spent too much money on software in the past that fell well short of expectations...." Do I smell Autocad/Pattern Systems? That didn't work too well for the shop I was in 8 years ago. Autocad is great for designing space shuttles, but it's a little much for our needs.

No Jobboss erp software 15k+ had a guy setting it for months. Solidworks 10k with support

I think prices will fall as the market grows and new packages start to compete.

Could be hasn't for the other programs though

I've been able to do estimating, parts lists, material lists and more using the existing features of Vectorworks: a library of symbols,worksheets, records and vectorscript.No cnc, but the parts lists are 100% accurate as long as I input the right stuff. This is only for the basic casework, and I can't imagine another shop using it, but it's free...except for the hours and hours I spent figuring it out. I think the big money goes into making a program that's easy to understand, easy to use and easy to customize.

Do use a database or spreadsheet for this?

All the programs below are anything but easy some next to impossible so where ever the $ went it wasnt into making them easy.

I didn't know there was a solution for commercial millwork that will handle such things as curved reception counters easily. What is that one called?

Keytrix- big bucks but good only down fall is not good on graphics

Imos- really big bucks and have heard some horror stories

Pytha- dont know anything about them

Rapid Engineer(Pattern Systems)-a buddy of mine bought it about 1 1/2yr ago and shelved it and no cnc link

Microvellum-Big bucks and sloooooow

[Patrick Gilbert]

One other question:

In the demo the Interioworks guy was able to grab a corner of a drawer assembly and move it to a position on an ajoining part when he did this it also shrunk the whole drawer assembly and the parts inside of it. Is this a vector works feature or a Interior works function?

[ccroft]

If the guy was able to do that and not change the thickness of the drawer box sides, it is a function of Interior works. I had to write a script to get around that problem.

What I have is a library of 2d symbols of cab types drawn in front elevation. All the parts are drawn in the symbol and given a class like 'drawer front'. Depth info is in an attached record, as is hardware and labour. The database function in v-works can look at the whole drawing and list all the parts in 'front','drawer bottom',etc and report their dimensions. That's the parts list.

It can also report total area of the different classes - materials list. Plus various combinations of lengths and perimeters to get total edgebanding. And it can see records so it can get total hinges or labour or anything else you want to attach.

This info is fed to a spread-sheet for further processing....area x waste allowance/32 and so on.

The last part was the hardest. I needed a script to change cab sizes in a manner that wouldn't change thicknesses of parts. That wrecks the parts list and obviously we don't use 1 1/16" melamine.So for eg it lengthens shelves and moves sides. We work bottom up on 32mm, so a change in height only changes the top drawer front on a base cab.

Basically it is what you see is what you get.Draw a rectangle and call it a front and it is seen as such in the parts list and the estimating sheet.

The other thing that v-works is really good at, and is the reason we got it in the first place is lay-out. On complicated reception counters we used to draw a full sized layout and build right on top of it, base on up cutting parts to fit. Now we cut the parts all at once, just like a basic box. This allows building out of order. We had a rush job like that last week and we had 4 guys working on it at once and a glass shop making curved parts to match. The first time it was fully assembled was on site.

It sounds to me like you probably already have that working for you. I mention it in case you haven't cause it's a huge benefit. It also means you don't have a guy tying up a $25,000 saw fitting mitres piece by piece.

Thanks for the info on the other software. I guess what I meant was not so much easy as workable. My little set-up would be next to impossible to put into another shop unless I worked there.

[ 11-03-2002, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: ccroft ]

[Patrick Gilbert]

"If the guy was able to do that and not change the thickness of the drawer box sides, it is a function of Interior works. I had to write a script to get around that problem."

Ok I get it now Thanks

"What I have is a library of 2d symbols of cab types drawn in front elevation. All the parts are drawn in the symbol and given a class like 'drawer front'. Depth info is in an attached record, as is hardware and labour. The database function in v-works can look at the whole drawing and list all the parts in 'front','drawer bottom',etc and report their dimensions. That's the parts list."

Solidworks does not have a data base,that is a huge difference!

It can also report total area of the different classes - materials list. Plus various combinations of lengths and perimeters to get total edgebanding. And it can see records so it can get total hinges or labour or anything else you want to attach.

Yes that would be very beneficial, Im suprised at how much functionality is built into Vw.

"This info is fed to a spread-sheet for further processing....area x waste allowance/32 and so on."

That would be ok for estimating but I would like to see some way of actually nesting(we use a cnc router)as there are times when that method would not be very accurate

"The last part was the hardest. I needed a script to change cab sizes in a manner that wouldn't change thicknesses of parts. That wrecks the parts list and obviously we don't use 1 1/16" melamine.So for eg it lengthens shelves and moves sides. We work bottom up on 32mm, so a change in height only changes the top drawer front on a base cab."

"Basically it is what you see is what you get.Draw a rectangle and call it a front and it is seen as such in the parts list and the estimating sheet."

"The other thing that v-works is really good at, and is the reason we got it in the first place is lay-out. On complicated reception counters we used to draw a full sized layout and build right on top of it, base on up cutting parts to fit. Now we cut the parts all at once, just like a basic box. This allows building out of order. We had a rush job like that last week and we had 4 guys working on it at once and a glass shop making curved parts to match. The first time it was fully assembled was on site."

"It sounds to me like you probably already have that working for you. I mention it in case you haven't cause it's a huge benefit. It also means you don't have a guy tying up a $25,000 saw fitting mitres piece by piece."

I do that now with Sw but that give me an idea that I could draw a sketch to parametricaly govern the cabinets within the room. But usually I do what is called a top down design or assembly ie the part is created from the boundaries of the other parts it works well but appears to be slower than Vw. Also changing assemblies in Sw can be tedious as it is easy to have error in the relations of one part to another.

"Thanks for the info on the other software. I guess what I meant was not so much easy as workable. My little set-up would be next to impossible to put into another shop unless I worked there."

I must say I'm very impressed with the speed and flexability of Vw that has always been one of my complaints about Sw. (Sw is not so much for assemblies but very good at intricate shaped parts like injection molds and sheet metal)

Sounds like you have created a pretty good system. Interior Cad looks pretty good and I think I will buy Vw and try the beta of Interiorworks. But until they have the complete package through cnc it falls short of what is really needed in the real world.I'm hopeful as they do have 1200 users in Germany so they appear to be for real. I dont know how many users Ware or Vision or Psi have but all bet it is not much more than that.