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Best Practice Q: How to create a site plan & section from a single layer


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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

I have a question that I have been working through much of the day. I haven't found a solution or a clear answer yet so I am hoping the brain trust here can assist... I may simple have thought about it, and tried to solve it, too much in one day... Hopefully I can make the question make sense...

If I want to have two viewports,

one showing a site plan (with referenced-in main floor plans only) as a regular viewport

and

the other showing a true site section of a DTM (with full house sections) as a Section Viewport,

must I be creating these two different viewports from two different ?Site? layers,

one showing just the site with main floor plan layer (in the referenced-in house viewports)

and

the other showing the site with all floor and roof layers (in the referenced-in house viewports)?

I had hoped that I could derive both the plan and section viewports from a single Site layer and control visibilities of layers Floor-2, Roof-1 and Roof-2 in each viewport using Viewport overrides, but the Section Viewport does not ?look? at my referenced house viewports to ?see? what layers & classes it has to choose from. It only ?looks? one step back, to my Site Plan layer where I have referenced-in the house plans.

I certainly hope that made sense, and that someone can set me straight.

Thanks in advance,

-Neil

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Hi J.

Yes, I know you can make many viewports from a single design layer and I have done this, albeit only for various top/plan views for a long time. As I am now learning proper 3D techniques and am making DTMs (Digital Terrain Models) I am now using Section Viewports to cut through the terrain and the viewports of the various units on the site.

So, I suppose the catch is that I would like to have two viewports of a single layer but I want the viewports to show different things... in one case just the Floor-1 layers of the referenced units and the other viewport I want to show all Floor & Roof layers.

Normally I would adjust layer and class visibilities in each viewport to make this happen, but the units themselves are referenced-in from separate file, so the layers & classes I want to turn off/on are not in the Layers/Classes dropdown lists for those viewports. I've also not done a lot of Referencing so I am not aware of all its complexities... but it seems I have found one.

-Neil

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Jim, with my limited (but growing) understanding of VW in 3D, I would say... No.

This is what I've got...

I have a DTM on its own layer. On another layer I have the units referenced in from three separate unit files. I originally had each unit VP at Z=0 but have now moved each one up to its anticipated Z height.

So, in Top/Plan view the site plan looks like a typical 2D site plan, though at the current stage of design I am showing main floor plans and not roofs. (The DTM isn't visible because the gazillion triangles that make it would show.) The catch is, by showing the units' main floor plans only, the Section viewports of the whole site are of course missing the top floors and roofs of all these units.

-Neil

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
The DTM should show with only 2D contours in a Top/Plan View, not a zillion triangles.

I would love it if the DTM would do that, but so far when I turn on the layer with the DTM (while in Top/Plan view) I get all the triangles. Must I edit the DTM itself and make the line attribute for the triangles white?

-Neil

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

- Are the ALL of the other Layers of the Building referenced into the File?

I am thinking they might not be properly/fully referenced in, because I can only turn them on/off from the Layers dropdown in the OIP when I have the unit viewports selected. When I go to the viewport made from this site plan layer (that has all the units showing) I no longer have access to the units' own layers.

- Have you navigated to the Section from the Viewport & then changed the Class & Layer Visibility to "SHOW SNAP MODIFY"?

I just did this, but the units' layers still don't show up in the Layer drop down of the OIP, probably due to them not being reference in fully/properly.

-Neil

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The DTM should show with only 2D contours in a Top/Plan View, not a zillion triangles.

I would love it if the DTM would do that, but so far when I turn on the layer with the DTM (while in Top/Plan view) I get all the triangles. Must I edit the DTM itself and make the line attribute for the triangles white?

-Neil

It should all be automatic. The DTM is a hybrid object similar to Symbols, in that in Top/Plan view you get a 2D display and in all others a 3D display. Are you sure you're in Top/Plan view and not Top view?

Here is a screenshot of what a DTM should look like in Top/Plan view, and also one with the settings for that particular DTM.

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=9793&filename=DTM%202D%20Top-Plan%20Display.png

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=9794&filename=DTM%20Settings.png

Edited by Monadnoc
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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
The DTM should show with only 2D contours in a Top/Plan View, not a zillion triangles.

I would love it if the DTM would do that, but so far when I turn on the layer with the DTM (while in Top/Plan view) I get all the triangles. Must I edit the DTM itself and make the line attribute for the triangles white?

-Neil

It should all be automatic. The DTM is a hybrid object similar to Symbols, in that in Top/Plan view you get a 2D display and in all others a 3D display. Are you sure you're in Top/Plan view and not Top view?

Here is a screenshot of what a DTM should look like in Top/Plan view, and also one with the settings for that particular DTM.

A clarification... My DTM shows without the triangles while viewing the _Layer_ in Top/Plan view. It looks like the first screenshot you shared.

However, when I make a Top/Plan viewport of that DTM layer, I see the triangles in that viewport.

I have matched your DTM's settings but it has not changed my result.

Attached should be some screenshots.

-Neil

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Hmmm, interesting. I just tried making a Design Layer Viewport and a Sheet Layer Viewport from the view I posted above. The Sheet Layer Viewport displayed perfectly as expected as 2D everything. But the Design Layer Viewport displayed the DTM as 2D Top/Plan view and the building walls layer and the roof layer as 3D Top view. I fiddled around and found that if I opened up the Viewport Layers Properties dialog box and switched any of the visible layers to Invisible, hit the Preview button, then switched it back to Visible, it "fixed" the problem. When I exited out of the dialog box all three of my layers now displayed properly as 2D Top/Plan. I'm guessing this is a bug. I'm on VW2011 so I don't know how it will react on your version. But give it a try. Click on your Layers button for the Viewport, change any visible layer to Invisible, then change it back and see if it displays properly.

I only had to toggle one Visible layer to have it correct all of the layers.

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To see contours in Top view, you would need to check the box for "show 3D contour" in the 3D Display settings side of the Site Model Settings dialog box.

I dont' really understand your other problem, but I think the confusion comes from the referenced design layers. You can only have one setting for a referenced layer's visibilities. So if the referenced layer is set to show the roof layer, for example, in one viewport it will show the roof layer in the other viewport.

To get around this, you can reference the same file more than once and set different visibilities.

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
Hmmm, interesting. I just tried making a Design Layer Viewport and a Sheet Layer Viewport from the view I posted above. The Sheet Layer Viewport displayed perfectly as expected as 2D everything. But the Design Layer Viewport displayed the DTM as 2D Top/Plan view and the building walls layer and the roof layer as 3D Top view. I fiddled around and found that if I opened up the Viewport Layers Properties dialog box and switched any of the visible layers to Invisible, hit the Preview button, then switched it back to Visible, it "fixed" the problem. When I exited out of the dialog box all three of my layers now displayed properly as 2D Top/Plan. I'm guessing this is a bug. I'm on VW2011 so I don't know how it will react on your version. But give it a try. Click on your Layers button for the Viewport, change any visible layer to Invisible, then change it back and see if it displays properly.

I only had to toggle one Visible layer to have it correct all of the layers.

In my case it's the Sheet Layer viewport that is displaying the site model with all of its triangles.

Regardless, I tried your technique on that Sheet Layer viewport but there was no change to its appearance in the end.

-Neil

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
To see contours in Top view, you would need to check the box for "show 3D contour" in the 3D Display settings side of the Site Model Settings dialog box.

Yes, this part I know, and I do have "Show 3D contours" checked for my DTM. The contours are showing up as I would like them to. The problem is that the triangles also appear.

I have at least figured out a workaround for this... Edit the DTM's "Graphic Properties" and set the "3D Triangles" to have 0.00 line weight. Now I can see the DTM's contours but no triangles.

I dont' really understand your other problem, but I think the confusion comes from the referenced design layers. You can only have one setting for a referenced layer's visibilities. So if the referenced layer is set to show the roof layer, for example, in one viewport it will show the roof layer in the other viewport.

To get around this, you can reference the same file more than once and set different visibilities.

I think you do actually understand my other problem! At least it sounds like you do. I may resort to doing multiple references of the same units to get different visibilities, but only if this is the best/recommended/only way to achieve what I need. I would have thought that Layer Overrides for a viewport would have prevent the need to do this.

-Neil

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
Hi Neil,

- Are the ALL of the other Layers of the Building referenced into the File?

Jim, might this be the setting that you are referring to?

Organization palette > References > (Select a reference, then) Settings... > "Use this method to reference Vectorworks files:"

Currently I have "Design layer viewports" selected, but I am wondering if you'd recommend I switch to "Layer Import"?

And if I do switch, before I switch should I go into each unit's file and change the "Floor-1" layer in each file to "Unit-X Floor-1" to keep all of the layers recognizable in their destination file?

Thanks,

-Neil

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee
Hi Neil,

Yes, if you don't change the Design Layer's Name you may have a conflict in the Document you've referenced the Layer to.

That's that I would imagine... if not for the file but at some point for my brain.

So, would you recommend that I use the "Layer Import" option for each of the referenced units? Aside from given me access to the units' file layers are there any other other advantages/caveats I should know?

Thanks,

-Neil

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  • Vectorworks, Inc Employee

Well... After a few different attempts at using the "Layer Import" option, and re-building the files (don't ask how long that took) unfortunately using "layer imports" didn't do the trick. I still didn't end up with the visibility control I needed.

What ultimately has worked (and thank you Jonathan for your clarity) was to:

- Duplicate my Design Layer Viewport for each unit.

- Turn on the layers I wanted to appear in each of the two viewports (in my case, one VP should show the main floor plan, the other should show all floors and roofs of the building.)

- Make two Classes, one for Viewports-Plans and the other for Viewports-Full Buildings.

- Assign each VP to its appropriate Class.

- Group each pair of VPs.

- Go to my Site Plan VP, which appears on my Site Plan Sheet, and turn on the Class: Viewport-Plans (and turn off Viewports-Full Buildings)

- Go to my Site Section Key Plan VP, which appears on my Site Sections Sheet, and turn on Viewports-Full Buildings (and turn off Viewports-Plans). My Section Viewports are cut using this Key Plan VP and therefore show the full building sectioned along with the site.

*gasp*

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

-Neil

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