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10.9 Maverick Upgrade and Vectorworks 2011 not working anymore

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Only if it's a quad core

My 2007 dual core iMac can only run Lion. Mountain Lion and above requires a quad core processor.

Hmm ... Mountain Lion runs fine on my 17" Late '07 MB Pro (2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo), and Mavericks is running fine on our 15" Mid '07 MB Pro (2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo).

IIRC, quad core iMacs weren't introduced until 2009. Maybe your iMac is an Early '07?

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This is the current list I was able to find as well:

OS X Mavericks is compatible with all Macs that are capable of running OS X Mountain Lion.

The full list of compatible models:

iMac (Mid 2007 or newer)

MacBook (Late 2008 Aluminum, or Early 2009 or newer)

MacBook Pro (Mid/Late 2007 or newer)

MacBook Air (Late 2008 or newer)

Mac Mini (Early 2009 or newer)

Mac Pro (Early 2008 or newer)

Xserve (Early 2009)

The models must also have at least 2 GB of memory, 8 GB of available hard disk space and Mac OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.8 or higher in order to install OS X Mavericks.

Looks like most lists that came out before Mavericks point to this article as the original source:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/06/11/macs-capable-of-running-os-x-mountain-lion-likely-compatible-with-os-x-109-mavericks

Apple now has it listed officially as posted above:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5842

Edited by JimW

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Might as well add my 2 cents here ... this is obviously a touchy subject. First off, let me just state clearly I am not trying to paint VW/Nemetcheck as the bad guys, because I don't think they are. They're as forced into the New World Order of yearly releases as any of us. And I truly appreciate the effort they put into making VW 2014 a stable release and their devoting staff to this forum. And I personally don't upgrade my OS (I'm still on Lion) just because I know/assume both VW 2011 and Cinema 4D 12 will not run predictably on anything newer. Software companies in general, and VW in particular, never support more than one version behind. And that for only something really, really major. Basically, the current release is what gets support. I've never liked that but I accept it as reality. and I work around it. My choice.

BUT ... (you knew there was a but coming), the problem for me, and I suspect many, many others, came with the switch to yearly releases (and I'm not picking on VW for this. Everyone does it now. And I equally hate it for everyone). When new releases were on a 3 to 4 year cycle (sometimes 5) it didn't matter if they only supported one prior release. That was enough to cover 90 percent of their customers. OS's weren't released that frequently. But, in my opinion, if you switch to a one year release cycle then you need to also switch to supporting at least three versions back. Maybe even four. It's just fair. And good business sense. You are getting a lot of people mad at you by not doing it. And you will lose customers. It's as simple as that. As a business you may not like that reality, but that is the reality. Just like as customers we don't like the reality of yearly releases. But that is the reality. For both of us. Plain and simple. We don't like yearly releases due to unresolved bugs and non-support of ongoing OS upgrades, you don't like supporting past releases because there are way too many to keep track of. I sympathize with your plight. All I'm asking is for you to sympathize with mine. And asking people to join subscription services is not going to make us any happier.

And I realize many users are fine with yearly releases and subscriptions. It fits their business model. But many are not. So what are we gonna do about it? Because something has to be done. Yearly releases aren't sustainable for a lot of customers, myself included, unless three or four previous versions are supported. That's the only way out of this mess. And it is a mess. I hope you consider it.

Edited by Monadnoc

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IMHO most VW yearly updates don't warrant a major version change. Most are basically minor releases/bug fixes which should remain largely compatible across versions and not touted as a new major version. As far as I can see, VW2009 (Parasolid) and VW2011 (Cinema4D) were the last versions to warrant a major release designation all the others since/between have been bug fixes and minor feature enhancements not worthy of a major version designation.

I think the subscription service was introduced as it would be difficult to justify such mediocre updates at full upgrade price.

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I have no authority to speak about how we price or what/why features get into specific releases (that is a subject far above my paygrade) but truly, many of the current major software packages are going in a number of odd directions.

Adobe for instance fully intends to move their entire CS suite to a model which essentially makes the software something you lease or rent (Creative Cloud), which I don't really know how I feel about. On one hand, it sort of make sense in many scenarios where you only use Photoshop or another package during some parts of the year and not others. On the other hand, it means that you are not able to stay with an older version of a software that you paid for fully, a feature that many users still prefer.

Apple has now effectively set the standard of supplying their OSes completely free of charge, recuperating this expense in the hardware and mobile device markets instead. However, Apple drops support for older hardware on average between 3 and 5 years old, essentially forcing their user base to put money into the hardware line, so that they don't suffer from the loss of profit in making their OS $0.

From my own personal standpoint, I see it thusly: I can not help users that are more then 3 years or 3 versions back, simply because of compatibility concerns that crop up. If a person is on the most recent version, I can rig up a machine with their OS and their version, check the issue, verify if it is user error or a software problem, then go from there. I keep my main two computers (both a Mac and PC always) and software as up to date as possible at all times, keeping extra computers around with older OSes in order to troubleshoot, but this is just my corner of the world and the things I deal with on a daily basis.

I suppose what I'm saying is, selling software has come a long way from buying a cartridge and booting directly to it on my Commodore 64. The advent of omnipresent internet access across most of the world as well as software companies needing to general not only profit, but RELIABLE profit has led most of them to the subscription/cloud model. It makes financial sense but does indeed change the way CAD, Graphic Design, IT companies etc, purchase tools and do business.

Things in major software companies' release structures are changing and we are definitely between worlds at the moment.

The best I can do is provide as much information as possible to as many users as possible, even when it is bad news in some of the above cases, which I take no pleasure in delivering.

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Hmm ... Mountain Lion runs fine on my 17" Late '07 MB Pro (2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo), and Mavericks is running fine on our 15" Mid '07 MB Pro (2.2 GHz Core 2 Duo).

IIRC, quad core iMacs weren't introduced until 2009. Maybe your iMac is an Early '07?

Thats interesting, wonder why then I'm unable to upgrade to ML? Must be another reason then, locked EFI, firmware?

I put it down to the processor - obviously in error.

Edited by Kizza

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Any word on Mavericks running VW2012 successfully?

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Any word on Mavericks running VW2012 successfully?

I have heard reports from users that it is not. I ran it here and it did open after uninstalling and reinstalling, but did not appear to be stable and crashed during closing.

Edited by JimW

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When new releases were on a 3 to 4 year cycle (sometimes 5) it didn't matter if they only supported one prior release.

That was then, this is now.

I personally don't want NVM to spend any money or use any resources to support older versions of their software simply because people are too cheap to upgrade yearly. Professional businesses need to budget for annual fees (Select Service). Hobbyists get what they get.

V-G

WAS ONCE:

MiniCad+ 4

Macintosh LC3

System 7.01

Compuserve

AT ONE TIME FLIRTED WITH:

MiniCad 7-ish

Power Computing Power Tower Pro 250

System 8, on 22 freaking floppy disks

IS NOW:

VW2014 SP1

iMac i7 quad-core, gobs of RAM

Mavericks baby!

WILL BE NEXT YEAR:

Vectorworks 2015

iWatch (CAD production model)

OSX 10.10 "Bacon"

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I ran it here and it did open after uninstalling and reinstalling, but did not appear to be stable and crashed during closing.

thanks for the timely feedback Jim

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We don't like yearly releases due to unresolved bugs and non-support of ongoing OS upgrades, you don't like supporting past releases because there are way too many to keep track of. I sympathize with your plight.

I sympathise with the unresolved bugs issue but v2014 is a case in point against that argument. And with regard to supporting OS upgrades if you're subscribed to VSS then it's a moot point because you'll always have the latest version of VW.

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Vectorgeek, to suggest that "professional" users should upgrade VW every year seems ridiculous to me.

As Ian H. noted above, VW's annual releases are hardly major upgrades and, while the cost of the subscription service is "reasonable," upgrading is always wrought with pain. Having to essentially start from scratch every year isn't sustainable.

Every time I upgrade I have to rebuild my workspace, update all of my template and resource files, put them all in the right places, copy plugins to the new version, and add any customizations I've made. All of this takes time and there are always issues to work through. I have surely lost more hair with each version of VW.

Add to this, the trouble with upgrading existing files. I NEVER move existing files to a new version because EVERY time I've tried, I've had nothing but trouble. So that means that I wind up needing to run two or three versions of VW at a time.

Then there is the lack of stability in the new release. I have found that I really need to wait until at least SP2 before starting to use any version of VW and, ultimately, each version isn't really stable until the last SP (and sometimes not even then.) And don't even get me started with the things that are mysteriously broken with the last SP of any given VW release.

Sometimes I think that VW has looked to politicians for their business model. As soon as they get a new user on board, they start working on getting them to upgrade (essentially starting to run for re-election the moment they take office.) I would venture to say that a typical version of VW isn't reliably usable until 6 months after it's release. That means that a typical user only gets about 6 months of reasonable productivity out of it before the next release is issued.

As any "professional" can tell you, the true cost in all of this is not in buying the software, it's in the time it takes to get it all working correctly and getting staff up to speed. On that front, I don't think that VW is helping any of us with the transition to an annual release cycle. It has surely helped NVW with an increased revenue stream but NVW hasn't done anything to make it easy for users to transition from one version to the next. Instead, NVW has suggested that users benefit from a reliable release schedule because they are able to budget for an annual software purchase (a claim that I find laughable.) Then NVW just throws up their hands and tells users that it is too difficult for them to maintain more than two versions of software. Pretty funny, right? THEY move to an annual release schedule, provide buggy releases with relatively little to warrant upgrading, make users run a virtual gauntlet to upgrade each year, make it extremely risky to transition existing VW files to new versions, and then tell US that it's too difficult for THEM to maintain multiple versions. Again, I am reminded of the politicians.

Yes, the software industry moves quickly but it seems that, rather than stepping up their game, NVW has just shed responsibility to users and cranked up the marketing spin with the hope that no one would notice.

A little more than my 2c worth.

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I'm running VW Designer w/Renderworks. Just as a reference, the monthly cost of my VSS is less than my monthly cell phone bill and on par with my monthly internet costs. VW certainly earns me more income than either of those.

KM

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When new releases were on a 3 to 4 year cycle (sometimes 5) it didn't matter if they only supported one prior release.

That was then, this is now.

I personally don't want NVM to spend any money or use any resources to support older versions of their software simply because people are too cheap to upgrade yearly.

Can I please take this opportunity to blow this myth apart.

In my previous life, I was Vice President at Citi Group (in their glory days) responsible for the London FX development team of their global FX (and MM) trading system. If you ever converted money to USD to/from another currency, it is likely that it will have gone through this system. The system age wise was on a par with VW and at one stage we had a UK development team of about 80. There was approx 50 instances of our app, run out of several data centres around the world. There were several generations of our app, independently developed by the regional data centres to meet the regional requirements. These regional systems were seeded from our app but were typically 10 years plus old prior version. From London, we ultimately had to maintain the London seeded systems but also had to support the regional systems with major enhancements. So I am highly experienced in supporting multiple versions of systems across multiple localizations , multiple versions of operating systems and multiple hardware platforms, including 32/64 bit versions.

If we developed a major enhancement in London and wanted to apply it to a regional system, the time taken to integrate the new code in to the regional code would be from 1/2 day to 1-1/2 days, of which the 1/2 day was mostly taken by copying code between data centres.

We could build any version of any system with one command and 4 or so hours build time.

We integrated 64 bit code into regional systems that were in versions 10 years apart in about a day. In other words, once the 1 year development work had been undertaken in London, we could apply that to our regional systems and build it ready for testing within 24 hours.

So maintaining systems many versions old with the latest code base can be done very easily and quickly. Hardly a major hog on resources.

In all of the above, the time frames don't include testing time, however in our case, testing of code reintegrated into other version/regions would simply be done as part of the standard test cycle as the regional centres tested their next release. In other words, zero extra testing was needed. Now I admit here, that with Vectorworks this would mean that additional versions would need to be tested as currently, only current and current-1 versions are supported, but from my experience, VW could do with as much testing as possible.

So, failing to support old versions is likely to be a commercial choice rather than a technical one.

As for those that claim hobbyists use, I suggest that you look at some of the areas that VW are heavily marketed. I regularly speak to people who already claim that VW is far too expensive and for the limited use that they would get from VW simply make it uneconomic for them to use compared with traditional drawing methods. Whilst some professions may get to use VW on a daily basic, there are some areas which, as I say are targeted, probably wouldn't use VW for more than 10 days a year and the cost of entry is prohibitive and even more so when their version has obsolescence built in.

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So Ian, question is:

The software you were in control of; was it as complex as Vectorworks?

As for obsolescence built in; is that more an operating system choice or fault because using W8 that is not my experience

And ...

Every time I upgrade I have to rebuild my workspace, update all of my template and resource files, put them all in the right places, copy plugins to the new version, and add any customizations I've made. All of this takes time and there are always issues to work through. I have surely lost more hair with each version of VW.

Me too but to do that and move from 2012 to 2014 took maybe an hour and a half or two hours and strangely although I find the experience tedious it reminds me of what I have to do to build Works Spaces, Custom Right Click Menus, Standards, Templates etc ? so although tedious and taking a little time the benefits of the new version no doubt pay back that time spent through that versions cycle

Add to this, the trouble with upgrading existing files. I NEVER move existing files to a new version because EVERY time I've tried, I've had nothing but trouble. So that means that I wind up needing to run two or three versions of VW at a time.

On my drawing machine right now I have installed and running VWs 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, and 2014 ? have no reason to go back further but at times still go back to old projects drawn in them and in an old project will NEVER EVER do any work to it in a version it was not originally done in ? 2010 also is still there because I have provided a little bit of training to two users still using it.

I just do not get it ? The software I use for my own web site and others I control - read this thread:

Eric BTW is the guy who develops Dynamik Web Builder

http://cobaltapps.com/forum/forum/main-category/main-forum/5321-dynamik-is-stopped

Seems something is wrong with Maverick?s version of Safari or Maverick ? who knows? ? For a Wordpress Framework

Would it not seem logical that some of these issues could be Maverick and issues with older versions of VW not running on Mac OS(s) issues with them as I am not experiencing them on W8 64 bit it seems

So ? I read these threads and scratch my head as the criticism being levelled at VW I reckon is unfair and I am not trying to start an operating system war but ?

W8 is the best operating system I have ever used and I love it. I use two computers all day my older ASUS Laptop and my drawing machine ASUS ? specs below ? Laptop for emails etc and fiddling with web sites at night, the internet and desktop purely for VW doing landscape designs, consultancy and my arborist stuff ? They are backed up individually locally twice each and each also to the cloud giving me consistently three backups for each puter

I reckon I know a little bit about what I am doing with computers. Over the next week or so will be buying a new laptop ? high end with lots of grunt because laptop also acts as a backup so that if anything happened to my big machine I can work on it

Whilst periodically I think ?Why do these dudes feel Macs are so good? - I would not go there in a million years as look at these issues this thread and others encapsulates ? let alone the excellent Website framework I use also having issues

And ... The cost of VW! - I have told our distributors here in Oz it is far too cheap through VSS. For a tool I use most of my working days and really like mostly ? I cannot believe it is not more expensive

Bugs ? most software has them ? VW probably is the most complicated software on my computer

In 2014 I have found a couple at least and just yesterday we unearthed an issue that was driving me nuts periodically for a number of versions and I have another that has been driving me nuts with my custom plants for a number of versions ? it?s been submitted ? we will see

Apparently if you remove the name for a landscape area ? that is it has no name and in my case use several of them it may muck up your Worksheet when totalling plants by inserting another Header in the WS. I am going back to an old 2010 and 2012 file to see if that is what caused this anomaly in some old projects

As Kevin says:

[Kevin]the monthly cost of my VSS is less than my monthly cell phone bill and on par with my monthly internet costs. VW certainly earns me more income than either of those.[/Kevin]

Totally agree

Also VW 2014 has been for me excellent and Jim W hanging around here and doing the good stuff he is doing, Sean and the other guy from Graphisoft sitting on the parent board - positive

It is too easy to complain and moan ? overall for my work I would be lost without VW and I continually develop my methods and work flows. Over the years I have been helped so much from generous and good people here

And back to Macs ? yeeek ? ... I do not have any of the issues it seems some are experiencing as per this thread and others - if that stirs up trouble ? for me at least it is the truth from my experience doing what I do. My new laptop will be W8 64bit with at least similar or better specs to me drawing machine and probably another ASUS

Sorry for the rant

Edited by Ozzie

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Every time I upgrade I have to rebuild my workspace, update all of my template and resource files, put them all in the right places, copy plugins to the new version, and add any customizations I've made. All of this takes time and there are always issues to work through. I have surely lost more hair with each version of VW.

Bill, you have proved my point. Wouldn't you way rather than NNA's technical resources be devoted to a workspace and plug-in transition solution rather than making VW2009 work on Mavericks? I too sympathize with users who are frustrated, but arguing for support 2-3 versions back is ludicrous. As for the upgrade, the +/- one day I spend each year reworking our setup is time lost, but also a chance to tweak, clean-up, and improve our system. I quite enjoy it.

Add to this, the trouble with upgrading existing files. I NEVER move existing files to a new version because EVERY time I've tried, I've had nothing but trouble. So that means that I wind up needing to run two or three versions of VW at a time.

Not our experience at all. We have successfully transitioned files from 2009 to 2010 to 2011 to 2012 to 2013 to 2014 with few issues.

Then there is the lack of stability in the new release. I have found that I really need to wait until at least SP2 before starting to use any version of VW.

We wait until at least SP1 to make the switch, so we are a few months staggered from NVW release dates. As I am sure you do, I regularly monitor this discussion board as well as other resources to help in deciding when to make the switch.

Sometimes I think that VW has looked to politicians for their business model. As soon as they get a new user on board, they start working on getting them to upgrade (essentially starting to run for re-election the moment they take office.) I would venture to say that a typical version of VW isn't reliably usable until 6 months after it's release. That means that a typical user only gets about 6 months of reasonable productivity out of it before the next release is issued.

Nope. The whole industry is moving this way. We pay $50 a month for the complete Adobe suite of products (2 concurrent licenses). $50 a month to always have the newest version, tech support and training resources. I spend $100 a month on coffee.

All the best,

V-G.

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I'm running VW Designer w/Renderworks. Just as a reference, the monthly cost of my VSS is less than my monthly cell phone bill and on par with my monthly internet costs. VW certainly earns me more income than either of those.

KM

Agreed 100% Kevin.

VG

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Can I please take this opportunity to blow this myth apart.

Sure, but careful not to try and compare apples to oranges. Is it really fair to compare the technical underpinnings of an application for trading money to a multi-platform 3D modeling and rendering application?

So, failing to support old versions is likely to be a commercial choice rather than a technical one.

Well I think you are incorrect Ian, however if it is a commercial choice, then surely that's NVM's prerogative correct? As a long-time user who doesn't really want to switch our firm to anything else, it's in our best interest that NVM stay profitable and continue to develop their software. If a "commercial" choice supports that, I'm all for it.

As for those that claim hobbyists use, I suggest that you look at some of the areas that VW are heavily marketed. I regularly speak to people who already claim that VW is far too expensive and for the limited use that they would get from VW simply make it uneconomic for them to use compared with traditional drawing methods. Whilst some professions may get to use VW on a daily basic, there are some areas which, as I say are targeted, probably wouldn't use VW for more than 10 days a year and the cost of entry is prohibitive and even more so when their version has obsolescence built in.

I don't see much of NVM's marketing these days aimed at hobbyists. IMO, those that get 10 days of use per year should have little or no say about the future direction of the application development.

V-G

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Am I the only one who isn't drinking the annual subscription model kool-aid? Yes, we all have other recurring expenses that are higher than the cost of VW but SO WHAT? Yes, the software industry as a whole appears to be moving to a subscription model but SO WHAT? Am I supposed to be happy about spending more and getting less? For me, the bottom line is that VSS doesn't seem to be worth the expense and aggravation. I don't think that each annual release makes me any more productive or profitable. In fact, I think that it actually costs me money (in lost time and related hardware upgrade requirements.)

Vectorgeek, I'd much rather NVW spent time making the software faster and less buggy and issue releases every 2-3 years. Your suggestion that NVW's only choices are to spend time making older versions compatible or spend time cranking out more annual releases is ridiculous. NVW decided to move to annual releases, I didn't ask them to do it. The fact that they did it without making it easier to transition between versions actually proves my point. They didn't do it for the users, they did it for the revenue.

I'm glad that you enjoy spending a day every year messing around with VW for no other reason than to deal with NVW's lack of a clear plan for transition. I don't. That lost day means a loss of $1,000 +/- of billable time (on top of the cost of VSS.) Personally, I'd rather spend that day generating revenue or playing with my kids.

Ozzie, I'm starting to wonder the same thing about Macs. When I switched from PCs in 2008, I really felt like they were a better choice. Everything just worked. Now that the folks at Apple have us on the upgrade treadmill, I'm not sure that it's still true. It seems that the annual subscription model isn't any better for users there either.

In the end, I think that I'd just like to get off of the treadmill altogether and get some freaking work done. I have a feeling, though, that is not what my future holds.

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So Ian, question is:

The software you were in control of; was it as complex as Vectorworks?

Probably far more complex than Vectorworks and most certainly being subject to tighter audit control.

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As for those that claim hobbyists use, I suggest that you look at some of the areas that VW are heavily marketed. I regularly speak to people who already claim that VW is far too expensive and for the limited use that they would get from VW simply make it uneconomic for them to use compared with traditional drawing methods. Whilst some professions may get to use VW on a daily basic, there are some areas which, as I say are targeted, probably wouldn't use VW for more than 10 days a year and the cost of entry is prohibitive and even more so when their version has obsolescence built in.

I don't see much of NVM's marketing these days aimed at hobbyists. IMO, those that get 10 days of use per year should have little or no say about the future direction of the application development.

V-G

That's really an arrogant comment. Why do you think that people who have paid the same amount of money for software as you (assuming you paid for it personally and not the company that you work for) should have less say over things than yourself just because they use it less?

Also, garden design is not a hobbyist thing. Its clearly enough of a sector for Vectorworks to be directly marketed at.

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I too have to say I am very disappointed with Nemetschek's support on this issue, including their minimal response and brushing aside.

I have been a user since MiniCAD6.

I stayed with VW2008 for a while. I took the update to VW2011 because I had a reason to update. VW2008 had features I wanted. Not because it was the newest version or because it included bug fixes that made the software function as marketed. When I purchased VW2011, there was a list of issues, including (but not limited to) stability, dongle/activation issues and missing functionality...

One particular issue I reported was with regard to selecting symbols in spotlight... I was given a number of work arounds, but NEVER a real solution to the issue. An issue that is a fundamental flaw in the application, not a minor bug! I waited again and again for a resolution in service packs and minor updates. Nothing.

And then I was shocked to see VW2012. And still the select tool was not functioning in my then 11 month old piece of software.

I learnt to live with VW2011's flaws (most still exist)... and from that day, I have chosen not to purchase an upgrade as I have not seen any additional features that I need. I have no reason to have a VSS subscription as it's not cost effective for me. And I don't need new versions... until now. VW was (had been) working fine for me... until now.

In my professional work, it has been a very useful tool in my toolbox. But I do not rely on Vectorworks for my daily income. As a result, I cannot justify VSS subscriptions or yearly updates, which are to me (as I am not in need of the "new" features) nothing but bug fixes to my 3 year old piece of software. I bought my MacBook Pro and VW2011 at the same time, and I'm still using my MacBook Pro without issue.

Am I the only one who isn't drinking the annual subscription model kool-aid?

No - I'm right there with-you!

Vectorgeek, I'd much rather NVW spent time making the software faster and less buggy and issue releases every 2-3 years. Your suggestion that NVW's only choices are to spend time making older versions compatible or spend time cranking out more annual releases is ridiculous.

It seems profit seems to be taking priority over the user experience. I am all in support of adding additional functionality, but when it affects the products reliability or the user experience, then it's a problem!

As for those saying that if we want to keep using VW2011, not to update to OS X 10.9, isn't that contrary to the argument? You've just been telling me to purchase an upgrade or subscription!

I'm not asking for support of VW v12 or MiniCAD; we're talking about a 3 year old piece of software!

For me, I will not be purchasing an upgrade. I will not be subscribing to VSS.... Up till today, I had been using VW in my professional work, and had been lecturing VW at a major educational institution. That will end from today. You've lost a user. A user who has for many years recommended Vectorwork Spotlight as the best drafting solution for entertainment. And I will be recommending everyone (including the education institution) to seek alternatives.

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Out of interest, the only piece of software (other than Vectorworks) that didn't work after the 10.9 update was VirtualBox. A re-install (maintaining all settings) resolved that one.

I must be one of those "lucky ones" also.

Edited by Matthew Strachan

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So to pr?cis this thread

Mavericks. Apple's new OS X update, named after a famous surf spot in Northern California, sounds adventurous ? and maybe a little treacherous. Is your trusty Mac ready to catch the next big wave?

Totally and completely glad I have nothing at all to do with it

How can a software manufacturer, seller, supplier; whatever they do or are; be expected to support their wares that are three years old just because a user has decided to upgrade to something new today?

Do not get it and never will

Whoever upgrades to Mavericks please get it - it is your choice; as it is to use / run a Mac or Windows or whatever

I am though quite happy and contented doing things as I do

My yearly upgrade through VSS is I think under $700.00 AU - be happy to pay more than that

Edited by Ozzie

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As for this ....

Probably far more complex than Vectorworks and most certainly being subject to tighter audit control.

Tighter audit controls I get as you were dealing with $$$

Complexity - doubt it very much - sorry but were you spinning the $$$ in 3D space without Parasolids back then?

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