Monitoring Vectorworks memory usage

[Christiaan]

Does anyone know of a desktop widget or menu bar item that allows you to monitor the memory usage of an app (in our case Vectorworks)? Even better one that warns you when an app approaches a certain amount of memory usage.

This is instead of using Activity Monitor on OS X.

[michaelk]

Christiaan

I like iStat Menus

I also keep a shortcut to the folder: /private/var/vm in the finder window and watch the swapfiles.

swapfile0 is always there. swapfile1 shows up pretty soon. So does swapfile2.

I think swapfile0 is 64MB, swapfile1 is 64, swapfile2 is 128, swapfile3 is 256, etc.

By the time swapfile5 or 6 is created it's time to be concerned.

hth

mk

[J Lucas]

Hi Michael,

Do you know of a similar app for Windows 7.

What files would you watch?

Edited September 24, 2013 by J Lucas

[michaelk]

I know absolutely nothing about windows 7!

mk

[Miguel Barrera]

For windows I use Process Explorer, which can be downloaded from www.filehippo.com

Process Explorer web page

[J Lucas]

Thanks Miguel, Process Explorer looks like it will be easy to use.

[PVA - Admin]

On Windows I have used Rainmeter to good effect:

http://lifehacker.com/5846468/the-best-system-monitor-for-windows

[Horst M.]

I vote for new VW-plugin

that does the above asked memory usage monitoring

Name could be:

"Icrutch for Vectorworks"

;-)

Well, Im really really happy with VW2014!

I'm working on a complicated Set,

and 2014 made working in 3D sooo much easier.

There are (still) many glitches, but also many many steps forward in usability.

But Its also high time, that memory usage Problems get sorted out.

16GB of Ram even in a Laptop is almost standard,

And VW ---> above 2.5GB ? ... ach na ja: ist all said about that so often in this forum.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Horst M.

[M5d]

Regardless of VW's 32bit / 2.5GB memory limitation, isn't this crashing / file saving issue a memory leak bug that could be fixed prior to any complete conversion of Vectorworks to 64 bit?

[James Russell]

Rainmeter with a custom skin can tell you pretty much anything about usage, program specific too if you like.

I've got a monitor dedicated to it so I know if I'm about to peak out.

J

[Christiaan]

Regardless of VW's 32bit / 2.5GB memory limitation, isn't this crashing / file saving issue a memory leak bug that could be fixed prior to any complete conversion of Vectorworks to 64 bit?

You'd certainly think it could be dealt with in a better way than it currently is.

[Christiaan]

I like iStat Menus

The problem with iStat Menus is that you have to click on it to see how much memory VW is using.

[PVA - Admin]

Regardless of VW's 32bit / 2.5GB memory limitation, isn't this crashing / file saving issue a memory leak bug that could be fixed prior to any complete conversion of Vectorworks to 64 bit?

You'd certainly think it could be dealt with in a better way than it currently is.

Moving to 64bit will more mitigate these problems than actually solve them. The problem is that a lot of the time (80%-ish id say) when I get my hands on a file that is encountering out of memory errors, its usually some bizarre complication within certain kinds of geometry that is causing Vectorworks to NEED so much memory in the first place.

This isn't to say "Oh users are just doing it wrong.", the large majority of the time they are doing everything as they should be.

There are just a number of odd cases where changing your workflow could remove the problem entirely. (Creating sweeps when 3D Conversion Resolution is set to Very High for example, creates INSANELY complex objects that you would never suspect of causing major slowdowns and memory use, but fixing those solves the problem for the entire file.) Small things like this, which absolutely need to be fixed, make the memory limitations appear worse than they really are, and in themselves cause many of the memory leak symptoms users are seeing.

This post sort of got out of hand, moral of the story:

1) 64bit will make many of these problems appear to have been resolved, but a few of the problems have another core issue that should be worked out as well.

2) Any time you get a file with Out Of Memory errors, we would like it sent to us so we can tear it apart until we find the culprit.

I know it can be frustrating, but working through a file with tech support is the best way for us to identify specific issues and get them resolved. Chipping away at the much larger task of making Vectorworks as efficient and lean as possible.

Edited September 25, 2013 by JimW

[Monadnoc]

Thank you, Jim. That was a very honest, open and forthright explanation. Very helpful. It makes me think that it might actually get fixed some day. Soon, I hope.

[IanH]

Jim

You sound to me like you are saying that inappropriate content in the file is often to blame.

How about a report that can be run on a file that analyses it and highlights potentially problematic objects. This would then give people a tool to help tackle the root cause of the problem which, as you say, isn't simply going to go away with 64 bit addressing so IMHO, is a worthwhile investment by NNA as its a permanent fix and not just short term.

[Christiaan]

Yeah, really good level of info Jim, thanks.

[PVA - Admin]

Jim

You sound to me like you are saying that inappropriate content in the file is often to blame.

How about a report that can be run on a file that analyses it and highlights potentially problematic objects. This would then give people a tool to help tackle the root cause of the problem which, as you say, isn't simply going to go away with 64 bit addressing so IMHO, is a worthwhile investment by NNA as its a permanent fix and not just short term.

More that inappropriate content is often an "accomplice" to the larger problems.

Im totally on board for something like that, however I am not sure who I would address such a broad-ranging feature request to specifically. I'll see about putting it in as a wishlist item at the very least.

If nothing else, I am working on a procedure for users to more easily and quickly identify issues in geometry like this. I'm no Vectorscript master so it would still be relatively hands-on, but hopefully something easier than tearing the file apart piece by piece.

Edited September 25, 2013 by JimW

[RickR]

A procedure to find problem or broken objects?

Start it up and I suspect someone will jump in to automate it.

[michaelk]

I'd love to see a method of identifying problematic geometry. Jim, I'd be happy to supply however much pizza and junk food it takes to get that script started. Besides sweeps w/ .7 segments or a hint of self intersecting geometry, it seems like multiple extrudes guarantee a problem.

Quick followup.

With 2014 on Mac 10.8 I got up to Swapfile10 and no crashes! Never got that high in 2013.

It was a crazy day. I don't think all the virtual memory was for VW.

For those keeping score at home:

swapfile0 and 1 are 64 MB

swapfile2 is 128 MB

swapfile3 is 256 MB

swapfile4 is 512 MB

5 through 10 are all 1 GB

If my math is correct, that's 6 GB of virtual memory - VW 2014 still stable.

Christian, you're right about iStat Menus. You not only have to click the menu bar, but I find I accidentally invoke the pull down when I don't mean to. But I still find it more convenient than opening up Activity Monitor.

There are a couple apps that will display system stats on the desktop. I'm not sure I'm ready for that yet.

mk

[Kevin McAllister]

Multiple extrudes definitely are a problem. I tend to avoid them if I can. We need a multiple extrude / loft combination that's editable like the Loft NURBS in C4D.

KM

[michaelk]

Yes! I'd love it if Loft Surfaces were editable like solids.

I've also noticed that EAPs created in a sufficiently old version of VW will often cause problems.

Like Kevin, I long ago stopped using multiple extrudes. Both because the profiles are locked into equidistant intervals and because they often cause performance problems.

MK

[Horst M.]

Like Michael, and Kevin, I stopped using Multiple Extrude years ago.

The new Taper Face Command helps a lot to create Geometry in that Area.

The new high responsive OpenGL-Engine in 2014 is not so tolerant with high Verticy Objects as the older was.

I have a lot of Symbols that I migrate since Years, because its our Venues Stock Equipment.

I'm now checking the ones I use for this overly complex Geometry.

But in most elements that I created, I have an Idea which Part could be the

one that Stops the open GL Rendering.

Attached there is a Sample of a our Venues chair, that I created years ago.

Its all modeled from scratch, no dwg import (like my recent mistake)

The Problematic Element in this File was a Part of the chairs legs.

The original extruded Element had 30 Vertices!

Now. after some Version migrations the Polygon had 356 (!) Vertices.

So, it was VW, itself, that changed the Original geometry to something

unusefull complex...

Luckily i still have the creation File, and could restore the Part of the Chair with less than 10% of the verticies.

Now Open GL(low) is acceptable fast, and even the Flyover-Tool works OK

with 1000 Chairs. :-)

I'm very happy, that DaveD and JimW directed us to take a Look at these Elements, and gave some important Tips how to avoid such Geometry.

I wish we get more insights, like this one,

how the Softwares Core handles and Deals with Objects during Creation.

I appreciate, that I know now, that the 3D-Conversion resolution has an effect how Geometry is created in VW I expected it is just a Display Option.

I had no Idea, that the creation of sweeps (and Other objects?) is effected by that.

I always had it on high, now i set it to medium, because i just can't stand it if a sweep gets faceted.

May be its because i think, that I'm using CAD Software, and not a sketck software, and a round/sweept Element shouldn't have any Facets.

May be something for the next round.

I find it much easier to work in 2014 in 3D than it was before.

Even Faceted sweeps don't take out the fun.

Horst M.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Horst M.

[Christiaan]

Really need something that's either visible in the menu bar or alerts the user if memory usage reaches a certain level.

There doesn't seem to be anything like this available on OS X.

[PVA - Admin]

On OS X I use iStat Menus. It used to be free but I believe there is a price now.

http://bjango.com/mac/istatmenus/

Edited October 4, 2013 by JimW

[rDesign]

I use Free Memory on OSX 10.8 (it also worked on 10.7). It does exactly what you're asking.

There are several others as well - just search for 'memory' or 'ram' on the Mac App Store.

HTH.