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Dave Donley

Fast Interactive 3D Rendering in 2014 and the VGM

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You do have to change the render mode again but the geometry is still available, there is no geometry progress to wait through.

Plan view is "particular" in how it shows things - having OpenGL or any other render mode except wireframe active in Plan view means your plans will not look correct. We will continue to pursue the shaded look as a default for 3D with Plan view still looking correct.

Don't overstate the issue, just press command-shift-G and you're back in OpenGL.

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Just downloaded 2014 and I have to report. "Out of memory" on my first test file built in 2013. I have a Mac Pro with 32 Megs of ram. I am not out of memory. I will test the file for bad objects and retest but I will not be switching my work over to the new software.

rjtiedeman,

Please send your file into Tech@vectorworks.net with the subject "Attention Jim", so we can take a look at this directly.

If you aren't able to fit the file in an email, please PM me and we can arrange something else.

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Dave, it's not just about OpenGL. When we switch to 3D the default* setting should be perspective (narrow) and OpenGL. End of story. Vectorworks is full of horrible default setting decisions which add up thousands of clicks of the mouse a year!

* By default I mean when you pull VW out of the box it's set to those settings and never changes until the user tells it otherwise, after which VW sticks with the new settings until the user tells it otherwise... and so on.

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Christiaan, I respectfully disagree. I would very rarely want a perspective view by default. I do however think that a user preference setting might take care of this for you. So put it on the wish list!

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My guesstimate would be less than 50% of the user base would prefer perspective over ortho as the default projection.

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But they're old-school and retiring right? ;)

In all seriousness though, does anyone at NV actually know the answer to this? They probably should.

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You do have to change the render mode again but the geometry is still available, there is no geometry progress to wait through.

Plan view is "particular" in how it shows things - having OpenGL or any other render mode except wireframe active in Plan view means your plans will not look correct. We will continue to pursue the shaded look as a default for 3D with Plan view still looking correct.

Don't overstate the issue, just press command-shift-G and you're back in OpenGL.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your thoughts. With all due respect I don't think we're overstating the issue.

Imagine if every time you switched to top/plan view you also had to select wireframe rendering instead of VW doing it for you. We're only asking for the reverse, the ability to set the working render mode for all other standard views once instead of having to set it every time we switch back and forth between views. And Christiaan is only asking for the same option with respect to the projection of the standard 3D views.

While you say its easy to press command-shift-G, I would guess that results in hundreds, if not thousands, of keystrokes per drawing session on my part as a user. If you want to make my time more efficient, this is the place to start. I use this key combination more than anything else.

Kevin

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Create a saved view with the render mode and the perspective mode saved only and you can achieve what you desire. The only issues is the saved view is not saving the cropped no crop setting at this time.

Dave is incorrect though, All architects want the perspective view as the default in our office.

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Thanks Stan. Definitely there are work-arounds. But it should be part of the basics. What if I wanted the default to be OpenGL for a while and then wanted to change it to Hidden Line or Fast Renderworks? This would mean multiple sets of saved views. Or what if I want to take advantage of the rotated plan view and the standard views relative to it? Another set of saved views.....

The only other interface solution I can see for this is multiple working viewports....

Kevin

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Create a saved view with the render mode and the perspective mode saved only and you can achieve what you desire. The only issues is the saved view is not saving the cropped no crop setting at this time.

The other problem with this is that you can't actually save the type of projection you want. To save perspective projection you have to use "View Orientation", which means saving an exact snapshot view of your model. Don't want that, just want to be able to switch to 3D from wherever I am in the model already.

Kevin's plugin is the best workaround for now:

http://techboard.vectorworks.net/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=183549#Post183549

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Just downloaded 2014 and I have to report. "Out of memory" on my first test file built in 2013. I have a Mac Pro with 32 Megs of ram. I am not out of memory. I will test the file for bad objects and retest but I will not be switching my work over to the new software.

Something is definitely up with your file, I have it in testing now. However it doesn't seem to be anything in your methods, the file is nowhere near complex enough that it should be this slow and throwing memory errors. Testing continues.

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DaveD was able to isolate the issue with your file. It looks like the sweeps used in the tops of the canisters were set to a .7 degree increment, which resulted in exceedingly complex geometry for OpenGL to work with. (You wont see this complexity in wireframe, as it simplifies objects like Sweeps. )

You can see the detail if you render one of the sweeps in OpenGL and set the fills of the geometry inside the symbol to "None":

[img:center]http://i.imgur.com/pKr84qB.jpg[/img]

Luckily, you can select all of the sweeps at once and change the Seg value from .7 to something more like 5.0 and get good quality with no faceting while dramatically reducing complexity:

[img:center]http://i.imgur.com/xBhKUWf.jpg[/img]

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Note, this 0.7 sweep increment angle is "baked in" when the sweep is created, using the current VW Pref->3D->3D conversion resolution setting. If your pref is set to Very High when the sweep is created, this 0.7 degree increment is set for the sweep object. This increment angle value does not get affected by changes in the render mode detail setting - it has to be changed in the OIP shape pane if you want a different value.

My recommendation is to never run with the 3D conversion resolution pref set to Very High, use Low/Medium/High. I think it would be best if you only set it High when you know you are converting something then set it back to something like Low for best performance. Time is $.

Converting 2D polylines to 3D polygons is also affected by the setting and can generate permanently heavy geometry when the pref is set to Very High.

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Dave,

Can you clarify how the 3D conversion resolution setting works and what objects it affects?

My understanding was that it was not "baked in" but rather affected how the geometry was being generated in the current state of the drawing (ie. a circle at the root of an extrude would generate a 3D object with more or less facets depending on the current conversion resolution setting). Doesn't an extrude's resolution always change with changes to conversion resolution unless I converted it to a generic solid?

Because its an overall setting I've seen problems when using lower conversion resolutions and extruded circles of very divergent diameters (ie. 6" and 30') so I almost always have it at Very High.

Its good to know this is how the default sweep segment is set. I've often wondered why it was 0.7. I normally reset it to 5 or higher.

Thanks,

Kevin

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Thank You. That's good to know. However I have been built much more complex files in VW 2013 with out issue. I was looking forward to new and improved Vectorworks, this is a bit of a side step. If the software can't render a sweep at that resolution why include it in the first place.

Does this mean that In order for me to move files over to 2014 I first have to go into the primitives and edit the sweeps or can they be modified in 2014. I have a lot of similar files that are just fine as they are. This will result in hours of extra work. Any chance of a fix.

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You would only need to alter files that had problematic geometry. Moving forward, if you make sure to leave your 3D Conversion res set lower, you won't come across the problem again.

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JimW,

Thanks, I have been working with recent files and I know now what has to be fixed. (15 min each). Fortunately I build my display files with symbols so I can edit the products globally. Unfortunately the the symbols are hybrid objects. Os I can't just select a group and change the sweep angle all at ounce. Ounce the sweeps have been changed the rendering move fairly quickly.

I am looking forward to the next upgrade.

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I _almost_ never want the perspective view to model in.

I do want the ability to tell VW what view I want to work in and to have that stick until I tell it otherwise.

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For dead-on views -- Top, Front, Back, Right, Bottom, Back -- I spend most of my time using ortho.

However, for Iso views, I spend most of my time using perspective.

I would never want to impose my preferences on other users' workflows but adding the option to leave a narrow perspective on would save me a lot of time and frustration by allowing me to focus on the work itself instead of constantly fiddling with the interface.

Thank you for adding that feature to the wish list. It seems like that preference would be a natural fit in the main toolbar, right next to the Standard Views picker.

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