VWs lagging behind......

[VincentCuclair]

My sentiments exactly :grin:

[ray isaacs]

doing mostly site planning, landscape architecture and urban design, our bim needs are not as great as with most of you. but, sitting here watching that beach ball spin and spin--as i have for much of the day--i'm wondering again why do i do this.

i'm spending more time with sketch up and rhino these days. they still have a long way to go. but, trimble isn't in this for nothing and rhino's popularity is spurring a lot of development in sophisticated plugins. i recently recommended buying rhino terrain and will recommend next week that we integrate sketch up more into our design process.

i still keep hoping for a break through release from vw, but we are branching out whether it comes or not.

ray

[VincentCuclair]

Sooooo far behind

Notice the handles on the window when selected, you can manually set individual mullion placement and open angles in the drawing area (and that's not even a new feature....)!

Edited June 3, 2013 by Vincent C

[VincentCuclair]

Another one.......

You know it makes me very sad knowing that all this comes from the same company that owns VWs........why the hell can't they share knowhow!?!

[VincentCuclair]

From 2009:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSju9A05on0

[Christiaan]

Another one.......

You know it makes me very sad knowing that all this comes from the same company that owns VWs........why the hell can't they share knowhow!?!

NV could certainly show GS a few things about menu design.

Really GS?

Design > Roof Extras > Roofmaker > Roof Wizard

[pgym]

Another one.......

Call me cynical, but just can't get hyped up over a slick demo video cooked up in a studio for marketing purposes, requiring dozens of takes using a trainer who practice the script for weeks, if not months, ahead of time, and hundreds of hours of post-production to bundle it into a neat, tidy 2 min package.

[Christiaan]

Another one.......

Call me cynical, but just can't get hyped up over a slick demo video cooked up in a studio for marketing purposes, requiring dozens of takes using a trainer who practice the script for weeks, if not months, ahead of time, and hundreds of hours of post-production to bundle it into a neat, tidy 2 min package.

Except that you couldn't even produce such a video with Vectorworks. Whatever the reality of ArchiCAD in practice it's about 3-5 years ahead on paper (or video demos)

[VincentCuclair]

Another one.......

Call me cynical, but just can't get hyped up over a slick demo video cooked up in a studio for marketing purposes, requiring dozens of takes using a trainer who practice the script for weeks, if not months, ahead of time, and hundreds of hours of post-production to bundle it into a neat, tidy 2 min package.

Usually that's true, however I worked with ArchiCAD for 5 years (versions 11-15) and already then there were options for showing the roof on several Design Layers with different representations for overhead and definable Plan Section heights, we still don't even have a satisfactory way of showing a roof cut at the correct height with overhead representation ( I don't consider the Auto-hybrid a suitable substitute for this even thought it contains all the basic functions needed for this purpose).

Judging by all the handles and options visible in the dialogs i would say it is flexible enough not to be frustrating.......

Edited June 3, 2013 by Vincent C

[Kevin McAllister]

( I don't consider the Auto-hybrid a suitable substitute for this even thought it contains all the basic functions needed for this purpose)

I certainly does but you can only have a few in a file before the overhead becomes crippling. All of these dialogs require real performance under the hood, something VW just doesn't have. The stair dialogs are heading in the direction of the roof dialog shown and they can be excruciatingly slow at times. (I have a top of the line Macbook Pro with retina display, other graphics applications fly along.)

KM

[pgym]

Usually that's true, however I worked with ArchiCAD for 5 years (versions 11-15)

And yet, here you are today, working with VW.

Don't get me wrong: there is A LOT to dislike, and even despise, about VW. Between the annual new bug releases, the unresponsiveness of tech support (don't get me started), and the unhelpfulness of customer service (motto: "Proudly putting the 'cuss' back in customer service since 1985"), we jumped off the upgrade bandwagon years ago: our last upgrade prior to 2012 was VW 12.5, and we'd have stuck with 12.5 if it ran in OS X 10.6+.

If we were starting out today, there's no way in hell we'd be using VW but we've got 15 years of time, energy, and dollars invested in it. As a small firm paddling furiously to keep our heads above water, we can't afford to put our current projects on hold while we learn a new CAD program well enough to produce documents, or the pain of converting our existing project files to a new format, so we'll hold our noses and stick with it as long as it's minimally adequate for our needs, no matter how green things appear to be in other pastures.

[Christiaan]

...so we'll hold our noses and stick with it as long as it's minimally adequate for our needs, no matter how green things appear to be in other pastures.

It's a matter of judging when the point is that minimal needs are no longer being met. I think we're at a point now that firms using other software are increasingly positioned to output information far faster than us. And at some point that's going to come home to roost when we're competing for work.

I remember years ago when we had an ArchiCAD user in our office and he was already able to output information about 3x as quick as VW on certain types of buildings. I hate to think what that ratio is now that we've moved to working fully in 3D with VW. While we've made gains on internal information co-ordination we're actually slower at pretty much everything else.

[VincentCuclair]

Usually that's true, however I worked with ArchiCAD for 5 years (versions 11-15)

And yet, here you are today, working with VW.

What can I say I'm a sucker for a stylish UI :grin: (which I must reluctantly admit plays a far larger role than it should......)

I've worked with and could still be working with all the 'big' ones (Bentley then ArchiCAD then Revit) and for 'normal' architectural drafting they are faster and more intuitive and more dedicated, however I'm an architect/designer/artist more than a draftsman so I need the versatility that Vectorworks provides in the form of superior presentation methods, excellent alternative file import, export and handling capabilities, 3D modeling, rendering etc.

This versatility that is its strength however also its curse.......

Edited June 4, 2013 by Vincent C

[Kizza]

I'm an architect/designer/artist more than a draftsman so I need the versatility that Vectorworks provides in the form of superior presentation methods...

I'd trade artistic sketch mode for better drawing coordination any day.

[VincentCuclair]

I'm an architect/designer/artist more than a draftsman so I need the versatility that Vectorworks provides in the form of superior presentation methods...

I'd trade artistic sketch mode for better drawing coordination any day.

Then I strongly recommend you to change to ArchiCAD/Revit....or at least complement your office with one of these.

I'd prefer a package that can do both :grin:

Edited June 4, 2013 by Vincent C

[Kizza]

I'd prefer a package that can do both :grin:

Me too, but I'm not as patient as you...

waiting patiently for...

Edited June 4, 2013 by Kizza

[Christiaan]

What can I say I'm a sucker for a stylish UI :grin: (which I must reluctantly admit plays a far larger role than it should......)

Vote here:

http://archicad-talk.graphisoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=42638

[digitalcarbon]

hello all, in short i just do not trust dialog box based architecture, not matter how fancy. the video above showing roof framing timbers...i do not trust it.

here is why

[VincentCuclair]

hello all, in short i just do not trust dialog box based architecture, not matter how fancy. the video above showing roof framing timbers...i do not trust it.

Well M, until they get all parametric objects in all major CAD apps to be edited with handles in the drawing area, you're in for a hard ride. The dominant way to change settings for parametric objects is through dialog boxes...?!

(I must clarify that my main aim for posting that clip was to show how intuitive and relatively flexible the roof object seems to be in the competitions app.)

(It must also be pointed out that each frame member, purlin etc. can be individually edited and moved through dialog boxes and handles......so it doesn't seem to be a 'create a general layout for framing and that's it' approach.)

(It must also be pointed out that the way you apparently do things in VWs is not very common (not many of us have clients that are willing to pay for 1:1 modeling of the whole project, let alone designing of custom solutions in generally all parts of that project. Besides your method will probably still be present when(if) they introduce a similar roof and framing member tool in VWs.)

I'm curious, how do you show the attic in Top/Plan view?

Edited June 4, 2013 by Vincent C

[digitalcarbon]

hello Vincent, i agree that the best is parametric objects w/ edit handles in drawing area (like solid edge)

while i am not opposed to dialog boxes there seems to be a point where they get so big that one has to learn it again when all i really want to do is reach out and grab the item then edit. this approach is never forgotten.

again see part 3 of 5 "the machine that changed the world" video on youtube

reach out and grab was what they discovered at xerox parc

so rather than vw catching up to others with their fancy dialog boxes... i think they could eclipse the market with a reach out and grab approach

of course thing like materials and notes need dialog boxes

Edited June 4, 2013 by digitalmechanics

[Christiaan]

hello all, in short i just do not trust dialog box based architecture, not matter how fancy. the video above showing roof framing timbers...i do not trust it.

here is why

This is how I modelled the retrofit of my own house. It was a small project and I had time to model it as it would be built.

However this is not how we do business at work, particularly with regard to our design and build contracts. We simply don't have the time on these projects to be manually modelling everything. We need intelligence in our models so we can get on with the important stuff and leave everything else to maths.

I agree that dialogue boxes suck, as I expect everyone would. I'd rather have direct manipulation. Cadimage's Stair tool is a pretty decent example: http://www.cadimage.com/support/movies?keywords=stair

However, given the choice, I'd choose dialogue boxes + manual modelling as a backup over manual modelling + dialogue boxes that don't provide enough power.

Ultimately though I want parametric objects that are manipulated directly.

[Peter van der Elst]

I'm an architect/designer/artist more than a draftsman so I need the versatility that Vectorworks provides in the form of superior presentation methods...

I'd trade artistic sketch mode for better drawing coordination any day.

Then I strongly recommend you to change to ArchiCAD/Revit....or at least complement your office with one of these.

I'd prefer a package that can do both :grin:

Archicad also has a sketch render look! ;-)

[VincentCuclair]

Archicad also has a sketch render look! ;-)

In Plan view!?

[Peter van der Elst]

Ah, no I don't think so... Sorry I thought you were referring to 3d. Hmm, well OK VW beats ArchiCAD there :-)