VincentCuclair Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) Now the competition is even catching up in the few areas VWs was ahead: http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/archicad_17/3D_design/#element_association_to_story_heights http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/archicad_17/3D_design/#improved_morph_tool http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/archicad_17/3D_design/#3D_cutting_planes http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/archicad_17/3D_design/#bimx_in_ac17 , the new features list for ArchiCAD 17 reads like a let's embarrass VWs list! Edited May 28, 2013 by Vincent C Quote Link to comment
Kizza Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I wonder what the current worldwide user base is for Revit, Vectorworks and ArchiCad looks like a solid release. Quote Link to comment
VincentCuclair Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) Well one thing is for sure, ArchiCAD is BIG in Sweden partly because of the customization and support for local building standards is exemplary, from classes to symbols/PIOs and materials to schedules and layouts etc. (where as that for VWs is completely non existent!)....... it's getting VERY hard to motivate sticking with VWs because the user interface is so pleasant! Edited May 28, 2013 by Vincent C Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Don't forget: http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/archicad_17/performance/ Quote Link to comment
VincentCuclair Posted May 28, 2013 Author Share Posted May 28, 2013 Don't forget: http://www.graphisoft.com/archicad/archicad_17/performance/ OK, didn't even see that, hah, reads like our N&M wish list in a nutshell...... Quote Link to comment
Patrick Fritsch Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Just signed up for the release webinar, will wait to see what their forum users say until SP1 and may just make the switch. Funny, I was just going to subscribe to Archoncad's website to try and better my usage of VW but when you see Graphisoft put out such a large amount of quality videos on a pre-release, it kind of gives me a sence that their releases are not annual rushes and half baked like VW. We'll soon seen, VW may just become my 2000$ PDF editor next year... Quote Link to comment
Kevin McAllister Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Even Sketchup and other low end modellers are passing VW in some areas. NV uses the line "best in class" but I"m not really sure what class VW is in anymore. (I hope that secretly they've been developing/testing a revolutionary version in during the transition to the Parasolid kernel/64 bit version and that the current releases have essentially been maintenance releases of the old version to tide us over. In the VW/Revit thread there was a link to a quote saying the Parasolid transition was recently completed.) KM Quote Link to comment
VincentCuclair Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) (I hope that secretly they've been developing/testing a revolutionary version in during the transition to the Parasolid kernel/64 bit version and that the current releases have essentially been maintenance releases of the old version to tide us over. In the VW/Revit thread there was a link to a quote saying the Parasolid transition was recently completed.) This type of thinking has kept me stuck with VWs since version 11.5, however when I see the likes of this: and see the snail pace development of VWs I wonder why?! Just summing up what I see in the video: 1. Materials, with priority based connections (i.e. automatic component joins) 2. Live Detail DLs 3. Any wall component combination even several different ones on top of each other. 4. Walls that span several stories at once and show on each consecutive Top/Plan view 5. Clip cube including material renders and textures 6. Intelligent Elevation markers 7. Live sections 8. Live 3D associative dimensions 9. Associative dimensions in VPs 9. 3D hatches Edited May 29, 2013 by Vincent C Quote Link to comment
starling75 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) This type of thinking has kept me stuck with VWs since version 11.5, however when I see the likes of this: and see the snail pace development of VWs I wonder why?! see comments bellow : Nicolas Rivera: I'm sorry Archicad Team, but this version should have been called Archicad 16.5.0. So far nothing impressing or new things that should have been integrated since version 13 at least. It reminds me some comments here on VW forum Edited May 29, 2013 by starling75 Quote Link to comment
VincentCuclair Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) see comments bellow : Nicolas Rivera: I'm sorry Archicad Team, but this version should have been called Archicad 16.5.0. So far nothing impressing or new things that should have been integrated since version 13 at least. It reminds me some comments here on VW forum Yeah, well it's still the same company , with the same strange company policies. (I don't agree with the quote above btw, I worked extensively (5years) with ArchiCAD 11->14 and all the new features since then including the Morph tool are very usable......at the very least they have complemented ArchiCAD with innovative VWs functions which is what I am interested in, direct comparison.) Edited May 29, 2013 by Vincent C Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 see comments bellow : Nicolas Rivera: I'm sorry Archicad Team, but this version should have been called Archicad 16.5.0. So far nothing impressing or new things that should have been integrated since version 13 at least. It reminds me some comments here on VW forum Similar comments but qualitatively different reasons for voicing them. This is the comment of a person who is used to innovation and iterative improvement. He's complaining about a lack of big hitting features. When this comment is made about VW it's usually from someone who is tired of releases that are half-baked bandaids for long standing problems and have next to no innovation. And forget iterative improvement, VW releases are all about what's going to look best on the comparison matrix. The place is littered with new non-connected features that have been abandoned, broken down on the side of the road. Quote Link to comment
starling75 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Let's see VW 2014 Replacing "car" engine while moving on a highway was probably very tricky task. I would expect them to concentrate more on this core job and care less about improved aerodynamics and luggage space of the "car" I doubt that they are happy with half baked new "features" of the package ... And of course, there are comparable or better alterntives to VW, so anyone can easily vote with his/her feet .. ChrisD left for Revit and apparently Earth is still on its elliptical journey around Sun Quote Link to comment
VincentCuclair Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) ChrisD left for Revit and apparently Earth is still on its elliptical journey around Sun Perhaps, but he's in a completely new universe so the path of the sun in this one is of little interest to him now..........even if it would leave its path and shoot out into space :grin: Edited May 29, 2013 by Vincent C Quote Link to comment
starling75 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) Perhaps, but he's in a completely new universe so the path of the sun in this one is of little interest to him now..........even if it would leave its path and shoot out into space :grin: From VW to outer . Edited May 29, 2013 by starling75 Quote Link to comment
Kevin McAllister Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Let's see VW 2014 Replacing "car" engine while moving on a highway was probably very tricky task. I would expect them to concentrate more on this core job and care less about improved aerodynamics and luggage space of the "car" I doubt that they are happy with half baked new "features" of the package ... This is a good analogy. What they should have realized is big changes for the user are ok if they're done fast enough. I would prefer to learn a new workflow in my existing software than learn a whole new software package. But we've had to learn a new workflow each version (the screen plane / layer plane adventure as an example) which uses way more resources than a quick change. Kevin Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Replacing "car" engine while moving on a highway was probably very tricky task. What're we talking about here. Parasolids? 64-bit? Quote Link to comment
VincentCuclair Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 (edited) Parasolids..... You know how sometimes you struggle with fairly simple roofs in VWs, in other apps it's so intuitive and simple..... Edited May 29, 2013 by Vincent C Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Okay but they started Parasolids integration four years ago. Surely they weren't still concentrating on that in v2013? You know how sometimes you struggle with fairly simple roofs in VWs, in other apps it's so intuitive and simple..... Ugh... and that's two versions back. Quote Link to comment
starling75 Posted May 29, 2013 Share Posted May 29, 2013 Okay but they started Parasolids integration four years ago. Surely they weren't still concentrating on that in v2013? Ninety-ninety rule ... "The first 90 percent of the code accounts for the first 90 percent of the development time. The remaining 10 percent of the code accounts for the other 90 percent of the development time." Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I'm not convinced. There are far more obvious reasons: a lack of architectural knowledge. The fact that VW is a jack of all trades. A culture at NV that defines BIM as collaboration, neglecting the need for dedicated building modelling capabilities. A lack of resources. I really have a hard time believing that parasolids alone has put VW years behind its competitors and that come v2014 everything's going to back on track. If parasolids put VW behind what's 64-bit going to do? Quote Link to comment
VincentCuclair Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 (edited) Just fiddled a little with the trial version ArchiCAD 16, some good news for 'us' though, I drew a polygon with image fill and tried giving it an opacity, I couldn't. Presentation power still seems superior for us. Interesting to see the similarity in icons too VWs 2013 vs ArchiCAD 15: Edited May 30, 2013 by Vincent C Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Don't you mean trial of 17 Vincent? Quote Link to comment
VincentCuclair Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 No, i thought it would be but it turned out to be 16 Quote Link to comment
Peter van der Elst Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) ArchiCAD 17 will be available on june 1st I think. I'm using v.16 at the moment for my BIM models. VW is getting behind fast. Even the simplest building elements walls and roofs for example haven't been developed enough the past years (especially roofs!!!!). No complex wallprofiles like AC, no intelligent building materials, etc. I must admit that the 2d tools are better in VW, but we're heading towards a 3d world! AC 17 looks very promising so I will definitely check the trial once available. I sure hope VW2014 will be a huge improvement, or else we will probably switch here at the office... Edited May 31, 2013 by Peter van der Elst Quote Link to comment
Christiaan Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Pity they've done nothing to update that creaking interface. Quote Link to comment
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