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Monadnoc

Hardscape As Texture Bed

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I'm trying to apply some hardscapes to a DTM as a Texture Bed, with no success. I select the Hardscape (which is already set at the desired elevation of 102') and select "Texture Bed" under the "Display as 3D" pulldown. It cuts a hole in the DTM but is nowhere to be found. I tried changing the elevation to "0", but it doesn't seem to help. It changes it's location in 3d space but it still doesn't show up on the surface. I've tried setting the Hardscape thickness at 8" and at 0, neither seems to effect it. I've turned on all classes. Still nothing. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Does anyone have any tips for getting a it to work?

I'm on VW 2011 Designer.

Thanks.

Edited by Monadnoc

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I have updated the site model. I've assigned the classes via the Draw 3D area on the Hardscape Settings. I've assigned both the Main Texture and Border Texture to their appropriate classes. They display fine if I choose Slab or Pad Modifier for the 3D display from the pulldown. It's just the Texture Bed Modifier choice that seems to be wonky. Although I suspect it's me not doing something right.

Thanks.

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monadnoc,

this may not be the problem, but there is a known bug in harscape settings, draw 3d window. when you choose texture bed, assign main texture by class, you have to close the window, then reopen and assign the main texture by class a second time. just checked after installing sp3 and its still doing it. probably worth looking at the settings to make sure,

cheers,

ray

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You don't need to send a texture bed to the surface. It just hugs the surface and changes the texture of those triangles.

Check that your texture class also has a Solid fill?

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I think part of the problem is the dim I'm working on has gotten fairly complex, with several site modifiers. I noticed it starting to misbehave more and more as I added modifiers.

I copied the dtm to a new file with just one hardscape. It did the same thing, but when I tried the reopen-the-window-and-reset-the-texture trick it worked. But I had to send the hardscape to the surface. Then I pasted in another hardscape and the trick didn't work. So I tried changing the texture assignments from "by class" to the actual texture name and that worked. But when I tried both those things in the original file neither worked. I just can't get a hardscape to display as a texture bed. I can get regular polygons to display as a texture bed (and those have to be at 0 elevation, not sent to the surface). I'm having other weird things happen in the file. Either it is corrupted or I think the dtm tools are just buggy or user error. Maybe all three.

This is my first attempt at some serious site modeling. A little frustrating. And very time consuming.

Thanks for all the responses and suggestions.

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Hmm - problematic. Can you create a texture bed that is not a hardscape. So, use the Site Modifiers tool in Texture Bed mode, with a class from which to derive the texture? Does that work? I know it's not what you want, and that hardscape would be far more efficient, but I am trying to work out where things are going wrong so try cutting the hardscape out of the equation...

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monadnoc,

the dtm tool is both wonderful and horrible. it can be very frustrating. you are not alone.

without seeing exactly what you are modeling it is hard to know what is happening. but, if the model is complicated as you say, then that could cause things to get weird.

often the first indicator of being overly complex is that mesh smoothing stops working. have you noticed that?

i have found that looking for ways to simplify the inputs (including and especially the original site data) helps tremedously. the effect is cummulative, so as you work you need to focus on simplicity, without of course compromising your design.

also, polylines converted to site modifiers can cause problems (unless they fixed that in 2013). if you have polylines, convert them to polygons--then try to reduce the number of vertices.

cheers,

ray

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Tamsin, yes I can create a texture bed that isn't a hardscape. When set to "0" it displays fine. Which is the work around I'm using now. The only problem is the hardscape has a border so I need to create that separately. I quickly discovered you can't "stack" texture beds, so tried clipping out the center (a tip I found on the forum). That initially would work, but after several view changes it would stop working and only one texture bed would show. I finally gave up on that and created the border as separate "strips" around each edge (similar to how it would actually be built). This works fine. Plus it has the added advantage of having the border texture display correctly. With the Hardscape object the border pattern is wrong at the ends of paths and along angled edges. The big drawback is this process is very time consuming and results in a lot of pieces.

Ray, I don't think the actual dtm is especially complicated, and I don't think the hardscape layout is complicated either. But I think VW thinks it is. It does have several terraces on a small hill. I think it's more the number of pads, boundaries, and texture beds (which again, isn't extreme in my opinion). I also think I might have too many boundaries or overlapping boundaries. This being my first attempt at serious sight sculpting I've tried a lot of different techniques and different modifiers trying to figure out the best way to do a particular situation. And I'm sure I've done some things half-baked in the process of learning. It's starting to become a bit of a mess.

I am going to try and clean up some things, check for overlapping pads/boundaries, and see what else I can simplify. I'll then post the file. If someone wanted to take a look at it to see if they can figure out what I've done wrong, or ways I could do things better, I'd appreciate it. If nothing else if I could find out how to get a Hardscape to display as a texture bed I'd be very happy.

Here's a WIP image to give you an idea of what I'm working with (ignore the moire pattern on the bricks - it goes away at higher resolutions):

ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=8896&filename=Hardscape%20Front%20DRAFT.png

Thanks.

Edited by Monadnoc

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In my limited experience, if any boundaries or pads overlap you will get unpredictable results. This is something I would check carefully... also I noted that a single boundary can enclose multiple pads, not sure if anyone else has discovered this.

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One of the things I'm going to look for is any overlapping boundaries and add them together. When I first created them I didn't realize you could do that. A lot of my troubles began after adding some boundaries. A few times I had to quickly hit "undo" and try a different approach.

Thanks.

Edited by Monadnoc

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monadnoc,

looking at the image, i agree with you that it does look that complicated. what is not clear to me is what you are trying to model with site modifiers, and what you are modeling with other 3d/hybrid tools. from the looks of it, it appear that most could be accomplished with textures applied to walls, floors, slabs, etc.--which are simpler and more stable than the dtm--then use site modifiers only for the few remaining elements that absolutely must follow the contour of the ground. maybe you are already doing that.

cheers,

ray

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Well Ray, after reading your comments I took a look at the scene with different eyes and realized all of the things I did with the terraces using site modifiers could have been done easier just using extrudes and textures ( kind of a "Doh!" moment). I think I had a bit of tunnel vision, thinking that the beds were part of the site so therefore should be shaped via site modifiers. The soil inside the three terraces was created using pads with boundaries, then the soil and gravel textures were applied as texture beds, and the hardscape set to "slab". So I used 2 pads, 2 boundaries, 5 texture beds, and 3 hardscapes (set to slab), where I could have used 0 pads, 0 boundaries, 0 texture beds, and 3 hardscapes (set to slab). And only used site modifiers for the driveway and paths and beds going from the terraced area to the driveway. And probably all as texture beds except for the steps. Maybe use a pad around them. I'm sure that will reduce the wonkiness factor by a huge amount. I think the lesson learned is to NOT use site modifiers except when absolutely necessary, because they introduce all sorts of instability, especially as they add up. If you can use extrudes and other standard 3D modeling objects you are much better off. I will redo this and see how it handles. But at least I got a lot of practice trying out the different site modifiers. All part of the learning process.

Thanks.

Edited by Monadnoc

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