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VWA 2013 better for BIM? IFC compatibility with other applications?


Kea

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Hello,

there's been a lot of complaints of VWA / it's capabilities of modeling for BIM. We are a small architecture office, and now we might have a renovation project starting where they want to have a BIM, too... We are not sure if it's relevant for the project (ok, there's a big kitchen & auditorium with new ventilation systems), but in any case we should be able to offer the IFC-model (in that case the present spaces / structures should be laser scanned first).

The client wants to know how compatible VWA is with the applications the engineers use, and we want to know if VWA 2013 is any better in BIM than the previous versions. We have used VW for 13 years, but haven't had any big building projects - we are pretty worried about the lack of support in this sense - and I know no other VW users around here to consult : /

/ Kea

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I think you'll find the majority of complaints centre around the actual production of 3D geometry and traditional 2D output. That's not to say there aren't any problems with IFC configuration and output, but rather that hardly anyone is actually doing it. I'm sure they're out there but I know of no one using a collaborative fully BIM workflow with Vectorworks.

The three main problems you'll face with VW BIM are:

1. 3D architectural tools/features that fall short of the mark due to lack of integration with other tools or because of a historic lack of architectural knowledge at Nemetschek's end (so you'll be spending a lot of time working around limitations and backtracking on workflows that don't work).

2. Lack of localised 3D BIM library components (so you'll be building your own resource library as you go)

3. Bugs, glorious bugs, all compounded by working in 3D because there's no fudging it in 3D like you can in 2D. It is what it is.

And if you intend to produce traditional 2D output then you can add that to the list too. Producing elevations and sections from a 3D VW model is fraught with pitfalls, especially on larger projects.

Since moving to a single model workflow my work has become quite stressful due to time overruns and the extra hours needed to work through bugs and workflows that don't work but also because of things like changing the model, updating references, re-rendering views just takes a long time and we're not used to having all those steps in our construction document output.

In saying all that we're between a rock and a hard place really. Going back to 2D equally fills me with dread because of all the problems that presents with regards to co-ordination between plans/sections/elevations.

P.S. given that VW is still very much progressing into this sphere I think the latest version of VW is always going to be the best version to have if you are trying to BIM, despite the stress of constantly having to learn new bugs and workarounds. For this I highly recommend a VSS subscription so you can send your files to them to get to the bottom of any problems.

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It seems that no major improvements have come with the latest version : /

The project sould start with studies of the present state of structures, needs of the client, and alternatives of what should be done. At some point after preliminary design stages the BIM would come in question. We hoped, that we could decide only later if it would be really needed or not... but the project / construction consultant of the client seems to be very much pro the model.

The client wants the BIM to be "relevant" of course = not too extensive / expensive. The main gains are expected from the hvac design, if I have understood right. There might be needs to demolish and redesign some exterior walls due to their poor technical condition; also some small extension might come to question. That would make the BIM model more complicated of course.

(Hm, how to scan all the existing pipe openings in the walls that are hidden behind the ceilings.... cannot demolish them all... And would the laser scanning material be in any profitable and editable format... Hm).

I don't know yet who would be the hvac consultant, and what application would be used. Around here all architects use either Archicad or Revit for BIM, we also have a leading BIM specialist in the team, but of course he has no experiences on VectorWorks; for the applications above he has all the starting files customized etc. His company would also do the collision studies with Colibri. Btw, he has found out that Archicad is more IFC-compatible with other applications than Autodesk Revit - Autodesk is big enought not to care ;). I trust that smaller companies at least try to follow the IFC standards more closely, they cannot afford to neglect them.

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from what i remember a 3d scan of a building can open in any cad application capable of 3d modelling.

a few years ago we managed to insert the exact 3d model from the surveyor into microstation v8, although we did't do bim at that time (around 2007-2008) and the main application was archicad 10. i can't remember the surveyor's file format, though, the project library is out of my reach.

so the key is the complete 3d scan of the existing building.

rob

Edited by gester
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I don't know yet who would be the hvac consultant, and what application would be used. Around here all architects use either Archicad or Revit for BIM, we also have a leading BIM specialist in the team, but of course he has no experiences on VectorWorks; for the applications above he has all the starting files customized etc. His company would also do the collision studies with Colibri. Btw, he has found out that Archicad is more IFC-compatible with other applications than Autodesk Revit - Autodesk is big enought not to care ;). I trust that smaller companies at least try to follow the IFC standards more closely, they cannot afford to neglect them.

- In my experience VWs is equally (if not more) capable of IFC export as ArchiCAD/Revit.

- If collision control and review of model information in Solibri/Tekla/Navisworks is important VWs works fine for this too, again perhaps even better than ArchiCAD/Revit.

- Other data exchange (eg for energy analysis etc) via IFC I don't know much about however some posts on this forum suggest there are problems in this regard)

- DWG export for overlay purposes are good.

- 2D output from BIM is possible if you have the energy to create a functioning workflow for your practice however are lagging behind quite significantly compared to the likes of ArchiCAD/Revit.

Edited by Vincent C
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- In my experience VWs is equally (if not more) capable of IFC export as ArchiCAD/Revit.

- If collision control and review of model information in Solibri/Tekla/Navisworks is important VWs works fine for this too, again perhaps even better than ArchiCAD/Revit.

Sounds good!

- 2D output from BIM is possible if you have the energy to create a functioning workflow for your practice however are lagging behind quite significantly compared to the likes of ArchiCAD/Revit.

This doesn't sound that good : / it seems that one has to spend a lot of time testing and developing the proper workflow *sigh* and if it's difficult to get decent 2D-material from the model it's a problem indeed. Probably we would end up with separate files / layer for the model & 2D drawings, after all.

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- 2D output from BIM is possible if you have the energy to create a functioning workflow for your practice however are lagging behind quite significantly compared to the likes of ArchiCAD/Revit.

This doesn't sound that good : / it seems that one has to spend a lot of time testing and developing the proper workflow *sigh* and if it's difficult to get decent 2D-material from the model it's a problem indeed. Probably we would end up with separate files / layer for the model & 2D drawings, after all.

This isn't a big problem. It just takes time to learn the strange things of VW if you aren't used to them.

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We can produce quality drawings from Vw's 3D models. Vw's is very capable in that matter. God models = God drawings. Don't be afraid.

Other BIM tools users are having a lot of problems. For example: the need for exporting (AutoCAD) to finish the project and produce quality drawings.

There's a gbxml export in Vw 2013. This forma allows the communication with energy analysis tools.

Vectorworks talks really well with Solibri, Scia, Tekla, IES, Archiwizard, DDS? using IFC and other formats.

DWG is a lot better in Vectorworks 2013? it is a really time saver the new flattened option. Consultants will appreciate it.

The new auto-hybrid object resolves a lot of workflows. Also the Detail Viewport.

We have been 3D centric in Vectorworks for several years. 2D only for some annotations and design's rarities.

RHF

Edited by Mr. Gog
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