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Matthew Giampapa

MacOS X 10.2 Causes VectorWorks to Fail

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I have to say that while I am disappointed that I can't use Jaguar right away as I had planned, I want to express my gratitude to the staff of NNA that prewarned us. I was one of the lucky souls who had problems with 10.1.5, so advance knowledge is a good thing. I hope like 9.5.2 it is a fast development cycle. I have a machine that is itching to be back on the bleeding edge!

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Apple has announced that Mac OS 10.2 (Jaguar) will become widely available in the near future (on or before Aug 24). Apple has included changes in this release which cause VectorWorks 9.5.2 to fail to function properly. Known failures under MacOS X 10.2 include interactive screen drawing leaving unintended pixels behind, instability during printing, and inability to export correct image files. Apple is aware of these problems and is working closely with NNA to help develop a patch for VectorWorks which will work around these bugs in 10.2.

Nemetschek North America advises users of VectorWorks products to avoid updating to MacOS X 10.2 until NNA can identify workarounds for these problems and release a compatibility update. The VectorWorks 9.5.2 product line and MacOS X 10.1.5 continue to work well together. We will release additional information about this as soon as we have more information.

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Sean FlahertyChief Technology OfficerNemetschek North America7150 Riverwood DriveColumbia, MD 21046Tel.: 410.290.5114 - 614mailto:sean@nemetschek.net

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Advice to NNA:

Send a mailing or email to all registered users regarding incomplatibility with Jaguar--ASAP. I have Jaguar ordered, and just stumbled upon this topic. I am glad I did, but the vast majoity of users out there do not check these message boards. When can we expect a fix? I anticipate needing Jaguar for other non-VWA compatibility issues---I don't want the money I shelled out for Jaguar to just sit on the shelf.

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Guest

The problems Jaguar causes are not major like what happened with 10.1.5. So if you do happen to install it, it's not going to ruin your drawings or cause too much extra work.

It's known to leave ghost images, extra lines in the rulers, and some other strange issues which resembles redraw problems.

Keep in mind, these are things that Apple has done and erred on their part. As Apple makes the transition from OS 9 style OS to OS 10, we expect changes and we expect some things to go wrong. Thier step from 9 to 10 is similar from our step from VW 8 to 9. There is an imense amount of reprogramming that goes in when major changes such as these occur.

With that said, we fix our own problems, and now that we have fixed one of Apple's problems, we are expected to continue to fix thier problems from a customers stand point. It would be nice if you thought about the situation and realize it's Apple that broke these things, not NNA. I'm sure they are working around these things, but most fixes don't happen overnight. Especially for Operating Systems. So please be patient with Apple and with us. We do what we can do in the ammount of time we can do it in. We are all still humans behind this software package. I can assure you we have engineers that work til the wee hours of the night to get kinks and troubles fixed.

[ 08-21-2002: Message edited by: Katie ]

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...so what about the current VW redraw glitches that have been a trademark from OS8.5 to X.1.5, VW8.5.2 to 9.5.2? Are those Apple video service problems, or implementation problems?

I have no trouble being patient with NNA, since I believe there are maybe a dozen people at most developing the product -- one which is inherently more complex than a real drafting program.

Apple, on the other hand, has a large resource base, yet puts out she-height half-a$$ed patches every few days, exacerbated by the fact that they're obviously changing their libraries. MSFC's, in contrast, stay the same for years. They may not work, but the error will be the same. Imagine trying to avoid potholes that don't stay put. How can applications expect to function when fundamental operations are changed regularly?

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well put.

one would assume that it would be NNA's responsibility to keep up with the platforms they claim to support.

cool.gif" border="0

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Guest

When 10.1.5 was released, we issued a patch to fix a problem Apple created.

If Apple doesn't fix a few problems in Jaguar, we will contemplate a path then. Nothing is set in stone about that as of yet.

So, yes, we have been and are working to right the wrongs of Apple.

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katie-

what was the problem? is the patch still availible on this site?

I havn't experienced any problems yet. I'm curious to see what it solves.

thanky you. cool.gif" border="0

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That's a good point, but in the case of McOS, it's pushing things to keep up with every bloody iteration of the OS. Technically, NNA's supported X. And X.1. And X.1.5. 3 OS's right there, with code rewrites for each.

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really? i never looked at it that way?

does that mean that NNA provided patches or updates for all of the three major iterations of OSX? I never realized that they were working that hard. wink.gif" border="0

so far i've gone from 10.0.3 to 10.1.5 and have not needed any patches from NNA. Guess i've been lucky.

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quote:

Originally posted by Katie:If Apple doesn't fix a few problems in Jaguar, we will contemplate a path then. Nothing is set in stone about that as of yet. [/QB]

Katie--Huh? I would think that NNA would be more than "contemplating a patch" if apple doesn't fix Jaguar. I wouldn't hold my breath for 10.2.1 just to fix a single app (unless it was Photoshop wink.gif" border="0 If your working on a patch now, then say so. Otherwise, posts like this just cause more confusion and doubt.

BTW, the decidedly negative tone (Apple's problem...fault...blame) doesn't help anything. Apple has made some major improvements to OUR OS OF CHOICE. This must be incredibly difficult to keep up with and I appreciate NNA's effort (other than some negative comments regarding Cocoa and multi-processor support from Sean Flattery). I consider us ALL a team (computer maker, software developer and end users) and we sould be working that way. There have been plenty of goofs in developing MC/VW over the years...some of them completely independant of changes in OS even wink.gif" border="0

Keep up the good work and lets get that patch out right away!

mmm (MC/VW user since 1989)

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I'm satisfied with NNA's position re: OS 10.2, especially after their huge effort to patch VW 9.5.1 when OS 10.1.5 appeared. All of my applications are stable now, I get my work done and am happy to sit tight for awhile. I use VWA for my architecture business and am convinced that early adoption of an operating system, even with the stellar Unix pedigree and killer potential of OS X, is unwise in a business environment.

I think NNA's progress with VW is excellent.

All the best,Philip S. Wheelock, Jr. AIA

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There is a patch in development for 9.5.X and OS 10.2 compatibility.

We aren't trying to be negative with Apple, but we have written our program to work on their new system and with each update they have managed to break something.

QuickTime 6 broke image exports while the QuickTime 6 betas did not. 10.1.4 broke our installer.10.1.5 broke some core color handling code.10.2.0 broke a portion of our screen drawing code.

We understand that OS X is a new system, but it is a trend we are not happy with.

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We plan to have a 9.5.3 patch available quickly, initially as a beta while we continue tests with the final 10.2 version. It will also fix any problems introduced with QuickTime 6. NNA is a long-time supporter of Apple and we continue to aggressively schedule support for their new technology. We now have a much closer relationship with Apple so hopefully this will run more smoothly with future releases.

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Hi,

Sean and Matthew I appreciate the responses and your point(s) of view. Very understandable. BTW, we don't always have to be happy with it. Sometimes a client will push or challenge me in a way that I'm not happy with...yet this can yield a superior project.

OS X is the future of the Mac and in my mind 10.2 is not early adoption (how long for most to transition to System 7? That was pretty major).

Again, keep up the good work! smile.gif" border="0

mmm

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Guest

TS, I wasn't meaning to be negative with my post. It's frustrating to hear people compalin to us about something Apple broke and expect us to fix it every single time. Besides this message board, i hear it in email, phone, fax, etc.

I couldn't comment on 9.5.3 at the time this thread started. Since then, 9.5.3 has been made official.

We cannot talk about anything that has not been publicy noted by a press release or one of our Senior Officers making a statement (such as Sean did here). I'm sorry if I misled you or mad you disappointed that I couldn't release the information. However, that is something that I just can't talk about. The rules are here for me and others to follow.

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Well, according to the big count down on Apple's home page, there are about 4 hours until 10.2 is officially out there.

I'm sure there is going to be a formal announcement about this soon, but you can now download a public beta version of 9.5.3. http://www.nemetschek.net/downloads/vectorworks/9.5.3_page.html

At the moment, this is Macintosh only, and addresses the issues with MacOS X 10.2 and QuickTime 6.

Please let us know if you encounter any problems with this updater, or if you see any new problems that do not happen in 9.5.2.

Remember, this is a beta release. It may have unexpected problems.

We are making this available for users who want to update to 10.2 right away. In the near future there will be a final release of 9.5.3 which will be suitable for installing on machines that do real work.

Matthew GiampapaNNA Technical Support

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The beta release does not work with my dongle mad.gif" border="0 I upgraded to vers. 9.5.3b1 before upgrading to 10.2.I will have to try to reinstall 9.5.2 to see if it is Mac OS 10.2 or the VW 9.5.3b1 which is to be blamed.The System Profiler can see the dongle though.

Keep on with the good work

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We are currently looking into issues with the MacHASP dongles and MacOS 10.2.

At this point we suggest that anyone using a dongle protected version of VectorWorks not update to 10.2 just yet, and wait for the all clear.

We will put more information here as soon as we have it.

Matthew GiampapaNNA Technical Support

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Thanks for the speedy turn around to allow us early adopters grin.gif" border="0 to continue to use VW succesfully. Thumbs up for the extra work!

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KT:

Um, okay...To what post on this thread were you replying? My only comments were in support of NNA, and my negative remarks were pointed squarely at CrApple...

I'm the 'vice guardian', as it were, of a McNetwork, but I do NOT aggressively support crApple.

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I thought you .. or someone said something about teasing them with the fact that we might look into something ourselves. Instead of saying we were working on it. It might not have been you, but thought someone said it here. They may have gone back and deleted it since...

ah .. nevermind.

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