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Christiaan

Get rid of design layers as basis for model structure and display of levels

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This is a very long-term wish and it's fundamental to what VW is but we'd like to get rid of design layers as the basis for modelling and displaying each level of a building.

We'd like to model our buildings as one model and then use a live-section technology to generate plans, etc.

Design layers in a BIM application are basically drawing board baggage.

Edited by Christiaan

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e.g Moving one walls should move all wall above,

.....just a little tip regarding this (out of context): this can actually be achieved by using collinear constraints.....very useful.

Edited by Vincent C

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Interesting....what is being wished for here is exactly how it works in Revit/ArchiCAD :).

1. Story's are needed in every BIM program otherwise large multistory buildings would be impossible to work with,

2. Design layers are needed to show what is in the building at different levels (and crucial when drafting non architecture objects), however what we need is for DLs to be able to show what is on other Storys as well, not only objects on the story it is connected to. Mainly with regards to split levels, double story spaces etc. etc.

One advantage that must not be forgotten in the system that is in place now is that several different alternatives for the same building can be created in the same file, this is very difficult/impossible in ArchiCAD and Revit. (However it must be said that with their superior external file referencing systems this can be achieved with several files instead of one) but it is still worth noting. I suspect that it is an advantage for many when it comes to demolition phase drafting too.....

Perhaps it can be achieved by using a similar technique as the Auto Hybrid? We could call them Auto Design Layers or Live Design Layers :grin:

Edited by Vincent C

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e.g Moving one walls should move all wall above,

.....just a little tip regarding this (out of context): this can actually be achieved by using collinear constraints.....very useful.

That wasn't my quote! I have never had any problems aligning walls.

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what we need is for DLs to be able to show what is on other Storys as well, not only objects on the story it is connected to. Mainly with regards to split levels, double story spaces etc. etc.

Personally, this is what I would like to see. Keep the structure, but let us bound objects to any level type of any story, and let them appear on several design layer. So a wall that goes up 3 stories will show on all 3, but still be one wall.

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e.g Moving one walls should move all wall above,

.....just a little tip regarding this (out of context): this can actually be achieved by using collinear constraints.....very useful.

That wasn't my quote! I have never had any problems aligning walls.

Slip of the mouse :grin:

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what we need is for DLs to be able to show what is on other Storys as well, not only objects on the story it is connected to. Mainly with regards to split levels, double story spaces etc. etc.

Personally, this is what I would like to see. Keep the structure, but let us bound objects to any level type of any story, and let them appear on several design layer. So a wall that goes up 3 stories will show on all 3, but still be one wall.

So in essence the problem isn't (mainly) with DLs but with PIOs.......

Edited by Vincent C

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Revit in the long haul is Gold.. too bad they havent fixed the 2D part and graphics yet.

Actually the 2D mark up in Revit 2013 is pretty good. The 2D linear materials are better than VW and are intelligent, self-categorised (classed) and just work. You can put 2D insulation batts that snap to wall cavities of the 3D wall etc. It's actually better than VW at 2D in many respects.

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e.g Moving one walls should move all wall above,

.....just a little tip regarding this (out of context): this can actually be achieved by using collinear constraints.....very useful.

Thats walls on the same Layer..

Nope, I'm talking about walls on different Layers.....

Edited by Vincent C

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Revit ... is actually better than VW at 2D in many respects.

I'm not surprised to hear that. Vectorworks is good at 2D but only as part of a strictly 2D workflow. Throw in 3D and Vectorworks 2D is probably the worst of the lot.

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Vincent, from my experience that kind of tool in VW makes things unstable and prone to crash so I'm scared to even try it.

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And ta-dah!

Wouldn't it be good if this worked on all 3D objects!!!!!!!

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Vincent, from my experience that kind of tool in VW makes things unstable and prone to crash so I'm scared to even try it.

Yes, I'm afraid it does, I believe it is related to collisions between the associative dimensions constraints and the 'normal' constraints.

I don't use them however perhaps others have some use for this......and I was proving a point :)

Edited by Vincent C

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In fact I would expect the overall number of constraints required in a model to be reduced if we could produce our model on one design layer. Which would be another positive thing.

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Another one is soil vent pipes and rainwater pipes. Crazy that we have to split these to sections for each floor level.

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Get rid of design layers and call them Design Volumes or Design spaces or something. Get rid of classes and replace them with Tags, the difference being that multiple Tags can be attached to a single object.

So I can tag something as being for example 'Floor 3', 'Cladding', 'Type D', 'Fudge brown'.

Design spaces ('layers') could then just be spatial queries; so you could say 'I want to see everything within these clip volumes'. Where an object is clipped you would have some edit handles where these make sense so you could still move walls around in plan. Saved views save which clip volumes, tags etc are active.

You should be able to activate multiple saved views at the same time. Example Fire fighting stair saved view + 3rd floor reception saved view for while I'm looking at escape lobbies, for example. Or say add the views for chiller circuit + cooling towers + chiller plant.

Boom!

PS, Compromise for 2D old timers; design layers could still be around somewhere as additional sheet annotation layers or something.

PPS I think Solidworks can probably do all this already.

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PPS I think Solidworks can probably do all this already.

But Solidworks still adheres correctly to "Old Timer Drawing Standards" . . . .

:)

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