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Vectorworks 2014, big wishlist items in by end of October


Christiaan

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I'm taking one last shot at documenting the BIM improvements we need in Vectorworks Architect on http://needleandmortar.com By v2014 we'll either be BIMing economically in VW or we'll be transitioning to Revit/Archicad.

I've recently updated the wiki software to be easier to use but I've also lost Chris D who made a great contribution to the site (his company is moving to the dark side), so I'd welcome input from others: http://needleandmortar.com/wp-login.php?action=register

I want to get in as early as possible in the development cycle this time too. That means we need to have any large requests specified by end of October.

You can see view current content here:

http://needleandmortar.com/projects/

Edited by Christiaan
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I'm meeting NV engineers today. These are the key takeaway points I want to get across:

2. We currently need to output traditional 2D information, not 3D BIM output.

....

A. Or hugely increase the development speed of VWA BIM.

LOL 2D BIM ?.......why dont you make the effort to find out what 3D BIM others(including clients want)?

I would say they are equally important but currently not equally prioritized.....this must change.

The sad thing is it's only about a couple of simple basic things....'3D hatches'(vectorized hatches in elevation VPs), window/door scheduling and associative dims in VPs, with this we've come a long way.....

Edited by Vincent C
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I'm meeting NV engineers today. These are the key takeaway points I want to get across:

  1. Vectorworks Architect development is going in the right direction, just not nearly fast enough.
  2. We currently need to output traditional 2D information, not 3D BIM output.
  3. We need a better method of working in teams.
  4. Both architects that were here the last time have either moved or are moving to Revit.
  5. One of two things needs to happen:
  1. [*]Stop developing and marketing VWA as a BIM design solution that competes with Revit/ArchiCAD and make into something else. And tell your customers this.

[*]Or hugely increase the development speed of VWA BIM.

Christiaan, I guess what they need is a clear picture of our general workflow in practice.

3D BIM exchange will be extremely important in the future so I don't think the R&D for that is wasted however most of us are still stuck in the no-mans-land in-between where modeling is done in 3D and information exchange is still largely done in 2D. They need to get a clear picture what this 2D info exchange encompasses and what key factors need to be addressed to solve it.

Edited by Vincent C
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LOL 2D BIM ?.......why dont you make the effort to find out what 3D BIM others(including clients want)?

Our clients are not interested in 3D models, they want plans, elevations, sections and schedules. Our contractors are not interested in 3D models, they want plans, elevations, sections and schedules. And our consultants are not interested in 3D models, they want plans, elevations, sections and schedules. Trust me, I know, I've been asking about and pushing BIM amongst all these groups for over half a decade.

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Christiaan, I guess what they need is a clear picture of our general workflow in practice.

3D BIM exchange will be extremely important in the future so I don't think the R&D for that is wasted however most of us are still stuck in the no-mans-land in-between where modeling is done in 3D and information exchange is still largely done in 2D. They need to get a clear picture what this 2D info exchange encompasses and what key factors need to be addressed to solve it.

Agreed. I like your comment "I would say they are equally important but currently not equally prioritized.....this must change." Think I'll use that one.

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At meeting with NV engineers someone was saying elevations in Revit are OpenGL based, not vector-based.

Elevations in Revit are displayed exactly the same way as the plan or the section views. All views are just live editable views of the model. To me that makes them vector based - they are clean sharp vector style lines, so whether the screen draw is done by OpenGL or any other method is irrelevant. What's important is that you can print them at any scale you like and they are pin sharp, fully finished elevations. You don't have to render them and there is no wait for the screen to redraw while you work.

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4. Multiple Model Windows

The idea of only having a single model view on screen is archaic. Two up, is the absolute minimum for 3D work, so you can see your plan and a 3D view at the same time. Selections in one view need to highlight in the other.

i agree with most of your "Big Five" and this has been a must have for too long, but i would like detachable Panes, so i can put a "Main" 3D view on one monitor and the other three views on a second and even a third monitor with a toggle ability for the main view that allows you to flick through all keeping reference available to all views.

As for the practical side Christiaans 2D/3D argument, i prefer to work in 3d, but anyone on the production side of the divide still needs 2D to work from and until the day arrives that cars and shopping malls can be created with a 3Dprinter in one shot, 2D drawings are still going to be a necessary part of the CAD process.

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I tested some shaded and unshaded (hidden line) views in Revit just to check there was no rendering going on (other than screen 'rendering'). There is no doubt that these are vector elevations - you can turn line thickness on and off just like in VW, shading on and off instantly, and they all print pin sharp like a CAD drawing, not like a render.

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In Revit you can snap to lines within hatches in elevation intelligently, i.e. if the hatch is brickwork it lets you snap to the coursing lines, but if the hatch is a speckle like on concrete, you can't snap to the speckles. This works in shaded and unshaded views and even works with shadows turned on.

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Chris,

Revit has built in Core Windows only technology and will not be coming to Mac OS anytime soon. Boot camp, OS Emulation or Cloud based usage from a Mac is the only solution. Otherwise you get a Windows computer. Direct X has all the vector graphic capability to which you describe later in the thread.

Be interesting to hear your comments after you get a completed construction set level of complexity in the model of your building and the speed issues.

Revit has instant 2 way update of all work it would seem that would be a priority for the list in a BIM world?

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Stan, I think you're right about the prospects of a Mac version of Revit. We've converted some of our Mac Pros to Windows...the best ones too (sacrilege).

We've initially gone for Revit LT as it appeared on the market just as we decided to switch, so it doesn't have some of the features on Christiaan's 2014 list such as worksharing.

We'll be running VW alongside Revit for the next few years so you'll find me on both boards...

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ChrisD, how is your rendering workflow gonna work, seeing that Revit LT doesnt have an in-built rendering engine?

That's the beauty of a vector based workflow in Revit. Why would we render anything? We're doing 3D for the single-model workflow but our output will be 2D drawings like it always has been, for now at least. BIM information exchange will happen further down the line.

If we wanted pretty models for rendering we'd have stuck with our Cinema 4D workflow. We've never used Renderworks for rendering.

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ChrisD, how is your rendering workflow gonna work, seeing that Revit LT doesnt have an in-built rendering engine?

That's the beauty of a vector based workflow in Revit. Why would we render anything? We're doing 3D for the single-model workflow but our output will be 2D drawings like it always has been, for now at least. BIM information exchange will happen further down the line.

If we wanted pretty models for rendering we'd have stuck with our Cinema 4D workflow. We've never used Renderworks for rendering.

I assume you're still going to need pretty models for planning, no?

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I'm meeting NV engineers today. These are the key takeaway points I want to get across:

How did this go Christiaan? I think I also need some more promises (for especially faster development) to keep me using VWs...... I mean:

Workflow window schedule in VWs:

- creating a special DL with a long wall,

- insert a copy of each Window type in the file,

- create SLVP for front view, edit settings for classes etc.

- create SLVP for plan view,

- insert annotations and dead dimensions for each instance in the SLVPs

- add a Worksheet with all database info correctly laid out.

Change a window and you need to copy the change to the special DL, change dimensions and annotations in the SLVPs etc.

Workflow window schedule ArchiCAD:

- create new window schedule,

- set default/custom settings for views, associative dimensions and other annotations once, done.

Auto-update takes care of any changes.....

Edited by Vincent C
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