Jump to content

Class attributes

Recommended Posts

Something that has recently caught my attention but which has been there from the start now that I think about it, when you edit a classes attributes (line weight, colour, fill colour, textures etc.) you sometimes get a question box from VW asking do you want to assign these attributes to all the objects currently in this class and you click on yes always, yes, maybe, maybe not, no, absolutely not etc etc etc.

but here's the kicker... sometimes it desn't ask you. My question is, how do you force the dialog box with the question to appear every time?

I am trying to assign textures to existing classes, there are loads of unit plan symbols in my drawing so to go through each symbol and manually change each wall, sometimes missing one or two when I could do it all automatically at the click of a button (the way it should and wants to be) well...

That would really make things a lot easier over here.

Link to comment

Geez! I ask the question, submit a report, but get no answer. Paranormal Joe gets one though.

Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be correct.

Matt's explanation makes sense, but VW is inconsistent; sometimes it follows this, sometimes it does not. I think the same thing applies to applying attributes to groups (2 objects selected counts as a group, apparently, and sometimes a group counts as a group).

A month or so ago, I thought that the 'Use at Creation' would be the key, but turning that on didn't necessarily fix the problem.

Link to comment

To add a little more explaination ... When you create a class, you can set the attributes. Click the Use at Creation if you want all objects from that point forward to use those settings. If you have no objects in this class, then it will just go on with it's way and not give you a prompt.

Say you have a class abc that you have already put objects in. Now you want all the objects in that class to have the pen color set to green. When you go into the Class Setup dialog box, check mark the "use at creation" (which was not checked until just now), you will then get a prompt asking you if you want all objects that belong to this class to take on the attributes of that class. When you get the dialog box that says "Do you want to set allo the obejcts of this class that have already been created to use the class graphic attributes?", you have a choice of 4 answers. Depending on what you select depends on whether or not you get this dialog box again for this class if you make a change to the class attributes. "No Always" of course will never make the change to existing objects in the class, and only apply the change to objects created from then forward. If you make a change to the class attributes again, you will not get this message.

"No" will say, the obejcts that reside in the class already will not take on the new class attributes and leave them be. However if I change the attributes of this class again, show me this question ..

"Yes Always" means that the objects in the class will take on the new class settings. If you make a change to the class attributes again in this drawings, then all the existing objects will take on the change and you will not get this message again for each instance you change the class attributes of this class.

"Yes" says to go ahead and change my existing objects to the new attributes, but show me this question again if I make changes to this class attribute in the future.

Does that help ?

Link to comment

You've got it, TiT. Inconsistancy is the name of the game.

however, since it is a computer program and has to follow rules (it does doesn't it?) then maybe someone at nna would figure out what the rules are.

'Something like... if you have the classes set at active only and the layers set at snap to other layers and you are in the class that you are changing the colours and line weights on then it asks you the question, however if you change to a perspective view and turn all the layers on but grey the inactive ones and you are drinking black coffee with just a tiny bit of sugar and your mothers ancestors came from the isle of wight with a germanic strain three generations removed then VW will ask you the question but will not actually do what you tell it to do.

Theres something more here.

Link to comment

It helps and it doesn't help Katie. Thanks for trying but it ass Titanium says, inconsistant.

I don't recall ever having answered No always (or never) and yet I don't get the message anymore. I have answered yes always and I don't gget the message anymore (as you point out) however I also don't see the changes in attributes in the objects in the class I have changed.

My question was of course... is there a way to force it. That is, can I change my mind and have it ask me the question again after I have already effectively turned it off by answering yes always. I assume it defaults to the state where it asks the question if I shut down and restart VW. But maybe I change my mind in he middle of a drawing. I don't want to turn everything off to get the defaults, because for one thing I gget the defaults (which are usually the wrong options) for absolutely everything including but not limited to: extension reverts to a useless option where you have to manualy stretch your object to the line that you want to stretch it too. (who thought that one up?); fillet reverts to an option where it fillets two lines but doesnn't trim or remove the line ends; line reverts to constrained line (I think) etc etc

I am boring you.

This is an answer to Titaniums otherh question, why do I get answers, I think you are too concise. People don't want you to shut up the way they do with me.

The easiest way to shut me up is to answer my questionother wise i'll waffle on for days

Link to comment

The easiest way is to try it.

Go to a new, blank document. Draw some stuff on the none layer. Then go into the class setup and change the attribute settings of the layer and check mark "use at creation".

You will then get the dialog box I was explaining above and maybe you'll get a more concise picture of it all.

Link to comment

THe yes always applies to each class. Once you select yes always to one class, if you do it to another class, you will need to go thru that dialog box also.

Just about any object's attributes and textures should make appropriate changes when you select the correct button.

Side tracked --

Okay I tried it in VW 9 and it works ... VW 8 doesn't work like it's supposed to.

There's another reason you should upgrade to VW 9 ..

[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Katie ]

Link to comment

re: VW 8.5.2 MacOS 9.2.1


Originally posted by joe newell's ghost:
My question was of course... is there a way to force it. That is, can I change my mind and have it ask me the question again after I have already effectively turned it off by answering yes always..

NNM Tech Katie: would you PLEASE answer that specific question? (Your suggestion that we try learning the behaviors of the dialogue/Classes setup choices does NOT address its behavior nor his specific question - mine as well - of how to UNDO the action from having accepted ?Yes, always.?

Please explain why it is sometimes impossible to make an object's Attributes change... for example, using the Attribute pallette with a single object selected and any change made in the pallette popups instantly revert to whatever state they were in before trying to change them to something else.

Also, please explain all the circumstances why a Class?s attribute settings apply to an object even when the user does not want them to:1) Class settings window: Use at Creation2) Attributes pallette: having selected one or several Class Style or Class Color etc. popup3) Groups4) Symbols5) Plug-in Objects6) others...

What I observed in doing YOUR exercise: When I copied an object (created in the None Class, w/ its default attributes set per a ?new? VW file, not based on a Template) and pasted it into a Class whose ?Use at Creation? box I had subsequently checked, it took on those attributes. NB- I did NOT create this object in a Classs with ?Use at Creation? box turned ?on?. NB- I did NOT get asked by a dialog box about whether I wanted to have those attributes apply to this object (the object was sitting there on its original None Class; I selected it; I changed its Class assignment in the Obj Info pallette; it instantly took on the new Class?s attributes without asking or alerting me AND without ?Use at Creation? being turned ?on?).

I hope that is clear enough.

WHAT I OBSERVED which surely might affect the results: if any of the Attributes of an object are set as using the Class?s attributes, then it will take on those attributes even when copied, pasted, Class- and/or Layer-changed... in other words, the attributes ascribed to an object will govern its behavior first. Then it will be governed by its Class settings.

If these words are correct, then something simple like that should be prominently displayed as instructions/alerts/reminders/settings.

BUT - even in an object which was set to take on its Class?s settings, when I added some text to it the new text did NOT take on those atributes: i got one single text block whose entire background did take on its Class setting, but whose original text only took on its Class setting while the added words were just plain, default-black.

It is not consistency unless the User can expect/anticipate a particular behavior (i.e. it isn't only how well the brilliant software coders have done their design/execution work... it is also the ability of most/all users to use those behaviors predictably).


[ 07-22-2002: Message edited by: Arfitact ]

Link to comment

Do symbols also work with the class attributes.

That is if I have a symbol say of a condo unit and I decide after having drawn it that I want to change the texture of the exterior walls to horizontal siding.... Can I change the class texture of my 'exterior wall' class and expect the unit symbol walls to also change having selected the 'yes always' option.

because if you can do that I am missing something because my symbols never change.

Link to comment

Bill, I did answer the original question -- ""Yes Always" means that the objects in the class will take on the new class settings. If you make a change to the class attributes again in this drawings, then all the existing objects will take on the change and you will not get this message again for each instance you change the class attributes of this class. "

The second paragraph I don't understand what you are asking ...

As for the example you are doing, that was not the example I explained.

There are several ways to assign class attributes to objects. Once is by class assignment. Say you know everything in Class ABC is going to have a red fill and a blue line. Then you can go into the Class Setup and set the class to use those settings by specifying them there and checking "Use at Creation". If there are no objects currently in this class, you will not get a prompt. **Please note, you only get that prompt when you are in the Classes Setup dialog box .. you do not get a prompt when you move an object to another class via the OIP.

Say you have some objects in Class ABC and you decide you want the ones that already exist and ones you create in the future to have a red fill and blue lines. THis saves time as you do not have to go to each object and change it via the Attributes palette, you can do it one full swoop via the Use at Creation in the Class Dialog box. You would go into the Classes Setup dialog box (Organize>Classes...), select Class ABC and check mark Use at Creation, set the fill to red and pen to blue. YOu will THEN get the prompt that I was explaining earlier. Depending on what you click on will depend on whether or not you get that prompt again, for THAT class in classes setup, when you make a change to the class attributes.

If you simply move an object to another class via the OIP, then you are not going to get this message. If the class you are moving the object to has a Use at Creation checkmark, then the obj will assume those settings depending on what you selected at the prompt when you set up the class attributes in the class setup dialog box.

You can anticipate and expect the results if you keep in mind the class settings you have specified for certain classes.

There are some instances where classes are created when inserting a plugin or an object. These classes will have a predetermined class setting. I am pretty sure there is a PDF file in the VW folder or on the install CD that tells you the class created when inserting certain symbols/PIO's.

Link to comment

Let's focus on the dialog that comes up when changing an object's class via OIP.

All class attribs are set to ByClass. Then I force one attrib. Actually, someone else forces this attrib (or two or three). All classes are set to 'Use at Creation'. Without going through ALL the objects in the drawing (not quite all -- let's say Select All is not an option nor is a Custom select), HOW can I get these objects to take on (and set themselves to Byclass) the attribs of a new class, without manually setting that attrib back to ByClass? Right now, a line I drew will not change that forced attrib unless I set it back to Byclass. There are other times when a line with forced attribs would set its attribs to ByClass (and thereby take on the attribs OF that class). I'm not getting a dialog, since this drawing has likely already popped up the dialog, but I would have answered 'Yes Always'.

Link to comment

I know it's not your call Katie smile.gif" border="0

But if I upgrade to VW9.whatever to fix problems in VW 8.5.2, do I get my money back???

Or are the huge wopping sums we (the great unwashed) pay for software given unflinchingly to fund the programmers efforts in the hope that one day they will get it right?

May I here raise the cry "Culpability for Software Developers"

Link to comment

I might be missing something in that post, TS, but from what I deduce, I cannot duplicate the problem. Of course, if you are using a VS, I'm useless here since I don't work with vs.

Link to comment

You can't blame the monkeys, necessarily, Joe. As with any team project, it's a team effort and is susceptible to problems all along the chain.

As for my problem, it's basically as I posted.In a doc with all classes set to 'Use at Creation', and the default attribs set to ByClass, draw a line. Force the colour. Change the class of that line through the PIO. If this is the first time, you'll get a popup. Yes Always. I believe that line will pick up the colour of the new class (not sure). Later on, objects will definitely NOT pick up the new colour (i.e. will not set their colour back to ByClass -- I must do this manually). Is this something you cannot duplicate?

Link to comment
  • 9 years later...

Ah, 10 year old problems that still aren't fixed. Don't you just love those.

The behaviour of class attributes is still inconsistent in 2012.

I have a file where lots of objects are off-class and VW is failing to do what the Help files say it does. When I tick "Use at Creation" in the class attributes dialog box I should be presented with the option to set existing objects on that class to use the class settings, but I'm not getting it.

Worse still, the Custom Modification tool is broke too. You can use this to take attributes off-class, but NOT put them on-class. Madness.

Link to comment

Strange. I get it.

Yeah, this is what this whole thread was about....the inconsistency. Re-setting the saved settings in Prefs does not forget whatever you said, so you get one shot at this in the life of a file...or something strange like that.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Create New...